Does Jehovah have a visible organization?

by Vanderhoven7 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • ThomasMore

    Vanderhoven - your friend woke up with a full omelet but probably did not realize it was mostly a baloney omelet. Today, JWs still dance around their false prophecies. 1975 is just the tip of the iceberg.

    LongHair Gal - you are right. JWs have a disproportionate number of low income members. As you pointed out, it is because of their distaste for higher education (and education in general). The real problem is that they STILL think that they are smarter than everyone else.

    Jesus disciples were unlettered and ordinary but they did not arrogantly act as if it made them better. Paul and Luke were probably a rarity among the early Christians as well. Nevertheless, I read of no organized effort to keep people stupid like WTC advances today.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    ''JWs have a disproportionate number of low income members. As you pointed out, it is because of their distaste for higher education (and education in general). The real problem is that they STILL think that they are smarter than everyone else.''

    I was watching 'Six Screens' a few weeks back. The host related how all these JW'S are now reaping what they sew and all these things are coming home to 'roost'. All these things are surfacing when it comes to more and more JW's who face poverty and what not and having to live with sons, daughters nieces and nephews due to high cost of living and poor wages.

  • LongHairGal


    Yes, the disproportionate amount of ‘needy’ people in the Witness religion is directly attributable to the knocking of education/ careers and if you analyze it - any gainful employment - and pushing full-time ministry.

    The disciples were unlettered and ordinary but they had their trades they worked at. Even though we cannot compare the modern world to Jesus’s time, he had a trade as a carpenter and must’ve done jobs here and there.. The point is: the needy situation in the JW congregations is a perfect storm caused by policies against careers with members coming into retirement age with no preparation - plus an awful economy.

    Responsible people there will be cornered to give money - time and again. And this isn’t like the old days where you were buying an unemployed person a bag of groceries until they ‘got on their feet’! Nope!

    Glad I’m long out of it. This would be yet another way the religion will lose maybe more people because they won’t stand being preyed upon by panhandlers.

  • LongHairGal


    Yes it’s true. These people now reaching or already in retirement age (Baby Boomers like myself) were young at a time the economy was booming (the 1970s). Now the economy is garbage.

    They could have gotten a decent job without a college degree! (Not so today.). And all they would have had to do was work until retirement age and get SS plus whatever 401K, etc.

    But, no. These Witnesses threw it away with both hands. They wouldn’t be caught dead in a full-time job like I had. Instead they preferred to be in the ministry and got invited everywhere and were told how ‘blessed’ they were - and I was told I wasn’t ‘spiritual’. Meanwhile the older generation in the hall were all collecting their pensions. How’s that for hypocrisy?

    While it may sound callous to say ‘they are reaping what they sow’, I hope nobody expects pity from somebody like me. I would be up the creek without a paddle if I hadn’t trusted my own instincts!

  • FedUpJW

    they won’t stand being preyed upon by panhandlers.

    That must be what one "brother" meant when he went up on the stage for the final prayer and said, "Let us PREY." Okay, I know, a lame attempt at humor.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim


    'I would be up the creek without a paddle if I hadn’t trusted my own instincts!'

    You wouldn't be 'spiritual' enough if you trusted your own instincts and would never have gotten invited anywhere.


    KUDOs to you and others and,,, hats off to you for following your gut instincts and looking after 'you' first!!!! And not listening to peer pressure from others in the Borg and their 'toxic' influence.

    Full marks!!
  • LongHairGal


    Thanks. I read your bio and am also ‘Out’ of this religious organization because of the 1995 Generation teaching.

    It wasn’t even because of job criticism that I left. The 1995 thing is what really did it. The fact that everything is coming ‘home to roost there’ - is why I’m super Glad I’m Out. I realized this years after I left.

    As you said, because I followed my gut and held onto that job ‘I wouldn’t be invited anywhere’. That’s exactly what happened and I was on the fringes until I ‘Faded’. I accepted that they didn’t like me. (I worked and had a pre-JW life).

    They don’t get to come up to me now and ask for money!.. Sorry, but It doesn’t work that way.. If they were anybody else I would wish them luck.. But they don’t deserve anything.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim

    A large majority of JW's were baptized under the premise of the 1914 generation theology.

    Only to have that debunked in the mid-1990's to a new understand of 'generation'. Those who were 'dunked' before the 1995 generation change it seems the Borg was just ''hmf, too bad just accept it or else''

  • wantingtruth
    Has God An Organization On Earth Today ?
    I have read the Bible .
    I have never found the word “organization”, nor the fact that God would ever had or has an "organization" on earth .
    The humans want to understand through the word “organization” God’s theocratic arrangement ...
    BUT what really would fit with this word (organization), it is found only in Heavens !
    God’s Organization (theocratic arrangement) is in Heaven and it is Heavenly.
    And when Jesus Christ came on earth , he did not call it “God’s organization” but God’s KINGDOM !
    WHAT is God's Organization (Kingdom) ?
    According to Jesus words in Matthew 6 :10
    "Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on earth."
    ...we understand that His Organization (Kingdom) means the "state" or the "arrangement" where His will is done [not only at the declarative level]....
    ... and where God's authority is manifested >>> that implies that in God's Kingdom the willful sinner (or God's opponent) will NOT enter !
    1Corinthians 6:9,10 / Galatians 5:19-21 / Rev. 22:14,15.
    And furthermore, Jesus has taught us that Father’s will is that this [Heavenly] Kingdom to come on earth.
    And he taught us to pray for that.
    And because Father commanded to Jesus followers to “obey the Son” (Matt.17:5), we are praying until today “Let Your Kingdom come…”
    This is the most powerful proof that “God’s Organization” is not on earth today, because we all admit that His Kingdom is not here yet (we are still praying for it to come) !
    Well, but then , what does God has on earth ?
    He says He has a people ! ... Acts 15:14 / Titus 2:14
    But has He always had “a people” on earth ?
    No! because the history of His chosen people has begun with God’s “pulling his people out of Egypt”.
    So, before of that event God had individuals and "family" .
    When the Israelites entered in Egypt they were a “family” (of seventy souls). And there they become a "people". Genesis 46:6,27.
    And what God always had on earth are “human souls” because He is the OWNER of them ... Ezekiel 18:4
    “Behold, all souls are Mine;
    the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine
    The soul who sins will die."
    What is God doing “always” is as it follows :
    "The LORD looks down from heaven
    on all mankind
    to see if there are any who understand,
    any who seek God."
    Psalm 14:2.
    So, we can say that “always” God has been having on earth individuals who “seek after Him”, to know (understand) Him – but not "organization"!
    Now , Jesus has formed the “Christian community” within which God’s Kingdom has to "come" .
    And how does He did it ?
    To the "two greatest commandments" (to love God…and the neighbor) Jesus has added another one through which He fixed the "center" of the "Christian community".
    As a planet is formed by firstly fixing its “center/point of gravity” so did Jesus:
    He gave “a new commandment” to His followers:
    34.“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
    “By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    John 13:35.
    Through these words Jesus has fixed the “center of gravity” for the Christian community !
    There was never need for a human "organization" to keep His faithful ones united !
    That commandment works (like a gravitational force) in those who really have faith in Jesus and it produces unity (not uniformity).
    Within this (worldwide) "community" (or ekklesia) the Heavenly Kingdom of God will “come on earth” in short time / at God’s established time.
    Regarding the much used phrase: “God doesn’t deal with individuals, only with his organization” there is an inspired scripture proving how God deals with men:
    Job 34:29
    "When He keeps quiet, who then can condemn?
    And when He hides His face, who then can behold Him,
    >>> That is, in regard to both nation and man. "
    So, Jehovah deals with “both nation and man”/ individuals and group of individuals/people/nation (his people)...
    ... while He may be "at peace" with a certain His servant , at the same time He may be "angered" over His nation , as a "whole"
    ... while He may be "at peace" with His "people" , He may manifest His anger over a certain "individual" who proves to be "law transgressor"

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