I am deeply ashamed that I didn't accept evolution until a few years ago...

by ILoveTTATT2 113 Replies latest jw friends

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  Vidqun

  By the way, homeobox genes or Hox genes cause mutations in the same species. These don't create new species. I am sure the evolutionists will let us know when they observe the creation of a new species.

  A mutation can only change hereditary information that is already present. Without the DNA information system already in existence, biological evolution cannot get started. Mutation, by definition, is a random process, so in principle it cannot produce new functional systems (e.g., new organs).

  Where did the organisms come from in the first place for mutations and natural selection to take place? That is the big question!
  
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  cofty

  Only somebody who has never read a single thing about Hox genes could say that. Thanks for illustrating my point.
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  Vidqun

  By illustrating my point, I illustrate your point. Glad to be of service.
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  slimboyfat

  I would not criticise christianity unless I thoroughly understood the beliefs of christians. Christian theology is trivially easy to understand. Evolution is really complex. I have been studying it for 10 years and have only scratched the surface. Amusingly theists think it is intellectually honest to reject the fact of evolution despite never having read a single book on the subject - creationists books don't count!

  How come you criticise poststructuralism, Derrida, Foucault, postmodernism, constructionism, deconstruction, and so on without reading any?
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  Vidqun

  Slimboyfat, Cofty only reads Dawkins, et al. The rest is rubbish, don't you know?
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  slimboyfat

  It does seem that way.

  Cofty says people should read the arguments of those they disagree with so they can see both sides before arriving at a view. But he doesn't practise what he preaches when it comes to postmodernism.

  What he really means seems to be: 'you should all read books that agree with me and see how wrong you are. But don't expect me to do the same.'
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  Vidqun

  Cofty: One other thing. You asked about how genes can explain radical differences in body plans.
  The answer is homeobox genes.
  I don't think I have ever explained about the homeobox. Perhaps I will do that in the "Evolution is a Fact" series.

  I can't wait for your discussion on Homeobox and Hox genes, a fascinating subject indeed. There’s wonderful illustrations of the subject to drive the points home. I can actually see why you haven't done it yet. It's quite problematical for evolutionists. See the following quote:

  “Control genes like homeotic genes may be the target of mutations that would conceivably change phenotypes, but one must remember that, the more central one makes changes in a complex system, the more severe the peripheral consequences become. … Homeotic changes induced in Drosophila genes have led only to monstrosities, and most experimenters do not expect to see a bee arise from their Drosophila constructs.” (C. Schwabe, Theoretical limitations of molecular phylogenetics and the evolution of relaxins, Comparative Biochemistry and Physiology107B:167–177, 1994).
  
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  A Ha

  As seen, language, computer programs and the activities controlled by the nucleus of living cells, all qualify as UI. [1] A very important prerequisite of UI is the will or volition, i.e., an intelligent sender and/or receiver [2] (UI is not a property of matter, meaning it cannot originate from lifeless matter, organic or inorganic). The source of information is always an intelligent mind.

  [1] What is the will or volition of a cell nucleus? When the membrane potential of a mitochondria is decreased enough that apoptotic proteins are triggered, which leads eventually and inexorably to cell death, where is the volition of this event?

  [2] Says who? I wouldn't bother arguing that information is a property of matter, rather that it's a result of various configurations of matter and energy.

  Do you doubt if I cut down a tree and looked at its cross-section, that there is information to be gleaned from it? The rings carry information about the age of the tree (99 years) and about weather and other environmental conditions at various times in the past (the rings tell me that seven years ago there was a forest fire, and that two years ago was a particularly rainy season). Do you claim the tree is willfully sending this information to me?
  
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  Vidqun

  A ha, bear with me, I know you believe differently, but the will or volition will have to come from the one who created the cell nucleus. The cell nucleus cannot develop on its own from inanimate matter. It has to be created. It was designed for a specific purpose.

  The cell nucleus includes different kinds of information: 1) structural; 2) operational; 3) communicative. All three types could be classified as Universal Information or UI in short.

  Universal Information(UI) should be distinguished from commonplace information. UI must conform to certain criteria. It must incorporate:

  Cosyntics (code + syntax): This is all structural units and properties used in the process of creating information. A code is a uniquely defined set of abstract symbols. Syntax is a set of all the rules in a language, whether or not that language is natural, machine, logic or mathematic.

  Symantics (meaning): This refers to the meaning that has been assigned to words, phrases, sentences, thus the practical application of code and syntax. This cannot originate from random, unguided physical-chemical processes and needs an intelligent sender.

  Pragmatics (action taken): This allows the receiver of the information to perform certain actions. What the sender hopes to achieve and/or what the receiver needs to perform.

  Apobetics (purpose) The means of attaining a purpose.
  

  If you compare human language, computer language and DNA with above criteria, you will notice that all of these qualify as Universal Information (UI).

  E.g., If you look through a microscope at a crystal lattice, you gather in a lot of information, but this does not qualify as UI. Your example of the tree rings also presents you with a lot of information, but this does not qualify as UI either. If you look at the stars through a telescope a lot of information is presented to you, but it does not qualify as UI.

  Universal information, as human language or computer code, needs an intelligent compiler or programmer. So also the DNA code in living cells needs a compiler and programmer.
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  cofty

  So also the DNA code in living cells needs a compiler and programmer.

  That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.