Just realized they changed maybe the most important scripture in the bible.

by Crazyguy 37 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Wonderment
    Wonderment

    Half banana:

    Martin Luther was wrong! It is perfectly easy to distinguish faith from the works associated with faith. In the absence of other translators rendering the text in question as “exercising faith” as opposed to “believe,” I conclude that in this instance the JW org have doctored the translation to suit their own interests. It thereby becomes a snub to the “just believe in Jesus” movements. JWs very much want to tell you that they have the works to show that they are doing a worldwide preaching work.

    I don't think that by Martin Luther saying, "It is impossible, indeed, to separate works from faith" he meant that religious groups ought to emphasize works over faith as a means of acceptance, and to be saved. As a Protestant reformer, Luther held that salvation / eternal life are not earned by good works but are received only as the free gift of God's grace through the believer's faith in Christ Jesus as redeemer from sin. I think his purpose was to advise Christians against a laid back lifestyle, thus he wrote that "faith is not inert."

    So I take his comments within the above context. I agree with you that some religious organizations like the WT emphasize their kind of "works" over true Christian faith, which is clearly wrong.

    At the other extreme, some Christians seek to stay away from any Christian responsibility from their daily conduct. To prove the WTS wrong, they fall in the trap that all you got to do is simply "believe" intellectually that Jesus is Savior. These individuals may point to Acts 16.31, where Paul and Silas told the jailer, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved" when the jailer asked them: ‘What must I do to be saved?’" In the Greek language used here, "believe" appears in aoristic mode (punctiliar action), so many have concluded that for Christian salvation, all one needs to do is ‘acknowledge’ Christ as one's Savior. What they don't realize, is that acknowledging Christ as Savior is the FIRST step one must take in a life-long course of godly worship. One must endure till the end. Otherwise, all those Scriptures extolling endurance and fine Christian living would be empty in meaning.

    In John, we are told that one must "believe" (a word related to "faith") that Christ is the Son of God, and God's savior to the world. As noted in my previous post, the word "believe" appears as a present participle with the article (Lit., "the believing into him"), leading scholars to explain here, that "faith is sought of as an activity," especially denoting the exercise of saving faith."


    If ‘faith is an activity,’ and one can ‘exercise saving faith,’ at John 3.16, therefore translations that indicate so are not too far from the author's intention in transmitting that Christians must be actively obedient to Christ, fully trusting and relying on Him. "Active faith" is the opposite of "inert faith" which Luther warned us against.

    This is not to say that "exercising faith" is the best translation possible of the Greek word at hand, but one must ask why is there so much aversion to the thought of such activity in one's Christian life? Dislike of the WT Society (I am with you there) need not transform into the same dislike for the thought transmitted by a Bible version mentioned on my previous post:

    "For God loved the world so much, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever has an active faith in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

  • Crazyguy2
    Crazyguy2

    Heard the verse john 3:16 again today at meeting and again it really stands out when they state in their bible the phrase “might not parish “ when most Bible read “should not parish”

    “should not “ sounds to me like a positive statement that makes me think most likely will not where the phrase “ might not” sound more like the odds are not good but just maybe. Maybe I’m just mincing words but these kind of changes really do in my opinion change the meaning of scriptures and people perceptions.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    The key difference is what you believe in. The scripture says " faith in him" ie the Son .....Jesus.

    WTS teach that one must have faith in them , The Watchtower, so as not to perish

  • TTWSYF
    TTWSYF

    The corruption of the Holy Scriptures is again accelerated by the WTS...

    Soon 'Jehovah' will be replaced by the 'Governing Body'

  • Diogenesister
    Diogenesister
    should not “ sounds to me like a positive statement that makes me think most likely will not where the phrase “ might not” sound more like the odds are not good but just maybe. Maybe I’m just mincing words but these kind of changes really do in my opinion change the meaning of scriptures and people perceptions.

    Yes, when you use a phrase such as “ that the one exercising faith might not perish” ( just an example) joe public would view that as a slightly more poetic way of saying someone who believes may, shall or will not perish etc

    But witnesses will absolutely take it to very specifically mean you have a chance of not perishing, or being destroyed, if you do what you’re told, and Watchtower well knows that. They also know most people won’t pick up that subtle message. It’s rather cruel and sinister if you ask me.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot
    Diogenesister - "But witnesses will absolutely take it to very specifically mean you have a chance of not perishing, or being destroyed, if you do what you’re told..."

    Yeah, pretty much.

    Basically,"everybody's royally fucked...

    ...except maybe you, and only if you do what we tell you, and even then..."


  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Yes the WTS did change the wording in John 3:16 to suit their own objective of getting people to activity distribute (exercise) the WTS's own publications as in supposedly doing Jehovah's will and purpose and sanctifying his name .

    Here is many other exact words of John3:16 in other bibles than the NWT.






    John 3:16

    Verse (Click for Chapter)New International Version
    For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    New Living Translation
    “For this is how God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

    English Standard Version
    “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    Berean Study Bible
    For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life.

    Berean Literal Bible
    For God so loved the world that He gave the only begotten Son, so that everyone believing in Him should not perish, but should have eternal life.

    New American Standard Bible
    "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

    King James Bible
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Christian Standard Bible
    For God loved the world in this way: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

    Contemporary English Version
    God loved the people of this world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who has faith in him will have eternal life and never really die.

    Good News Translation
    For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him may not die but have eternal life.

    Holman Christian Standard Bible
    "For God loved the world in this way: He gave His One and Only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have eternal life.

    International Standard Version
    "For this is how God loved the world: He gave his unique Son so that everyone who believes in him might not be lost but have eternal life.

    NET Bible
    For this is the way God loved the world: He gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

    New Heart English Bible
    For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that whoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English
    For God loved the world in this way: so much that he would give up his Son, The Only One, so that everyone who trusts in him shall not be lost, but he shall have eternal life.

    GOD'S WORD® Translation
    God loved the world this way: He gave his only Son so that everyone who believes in him will not die but will have eternal life.

    New American Standard 1977
    “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    Jubilee Bible 2000
    For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

    King James 2000 Bible
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    American King James Version
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    American Standard Version
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son; that whosoever believeth in him, may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

    Darby Bible Translation
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whosoever believes on him may not perish, but have life eternal.

    English Revised Version
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his only-begotten Son, that whoever believeth in him, should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Weymouth New Testament
    For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son, that every one who trusts in Him may not perish but may have the Life of Ages.

    World English Bible
    For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

    Young's Literal Translation
    for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.
  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    As a jw, I thought of 'faith' as something active, not static and I think many contemporary christian commentators have the same perspective.

    These days I do not give a rat's arse about the bible, the Jws, or the NWT. And, I care even less whether the word 'exercising' in this context is acceptable.

    But it is important to know that translating something from an ancient language is very difficult. But translation from ancient documents is only part of the story, There is also the problem of early christian's translating from one language to another, It is now appreciated that Greek (or the form of Greek, then in common use) was in common use along with Aramaic, However there is even more complexity in the strong likelihood that there were also local dialects. Did Jesus speak in his local dialect? If so we could assume that early believer's who heard Jesus speak may have had to translate the words and grammatical patterns into another language three times (local dialect>aramaic>greek), We can understand how difficult that could be! (and we have not even touched on the problem of memory. If the book of John was written in the late first century (as the early church thought) then how the hell did John remember the actual words/grammatical forms that Jesus used. Believers will claim that the HS corrected John's faulty memory,

    But its much easier to think that John embroidered his memory and used his imagination quite freely. In doing so, he would have bee following a common practise in Roman times, (e.g. the long speeches in the (secular) history of Ammianus Marcellinus (born c. 330, died c. 391 – 400) ,

    So what am I getting at?

    Translators often compare usage and thoughts to try and make their translation as accurate as possible. So if you wanted to compare thoughts on faith where would you go.

    I suggest that the relatively short letter of James is a good p[ace to start, Why? OK! James does not get much emphasis in modern christianity, but he was likely a brother of Jesus, and he presided" over the all-important Jerusalem church; It is interesting to me that a university text book (Introducing the New Testament by Paul J. Achtemeier et al) says of the Letter of James. Quote: "it is a book that sounds much like Jesus and often speaks in tones uncannily reminiscent of Jesus own teaching."

    As someone has already point out (in this chronologically draqged out discussion) James 2:4 says something similar to the word 'exercise.', To use different words, but with the same meaning, conviction (faith) and behaviour (works) are inseparable. Or, again, faith affects one's life. So is 'exercising faith,' really such a wrong expression.

    ^ And, it seems, leadership of the Jerusalem congregation stayed in the family until the Roman army destroyed Jerusalem.

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