Dinah: what bad association?
The bad association? - The women of the field - souls who do works to live - Shechem, in charge in that 'land' (just like jw land), saw her and seized the soul who didn't work in the field, and spoke tenderly to her - and prayed to his 'father' for the maiden (the soul who was not yet betrothed - to a word).
..if you will not listen to us and be circumcised, then we will take our daughter, and we will be gone
Only on this condition will the men agree ....that every male among us be circumcised as they are circumcised.
And just like the wt, they wouldn't listen.
They slew them with the sword, and took Dinah out of Shechem's house, and went away.
It's a story about the souls of the field and their master.
<---------Jezebel.......(as per Saskatoon elders)
I have a theory about Dinah....I figure that she liked Schechem a whole lot...she was very attracted to him...and they had consensual sex. When she got home, she felt very uncomfortable...her brothers over-reacted because she got home kinda late....Her brothers gave her the third degree...and she felt frightened because her brothers were kinda scary and possessive because of the sister thing. To avoid the brotherly over-reaction, she kinda insinuated that Schechem raped her, therefore focusing attention away from herself.
The brothers then turned their anger and blame toward Schechem. Dinah's plan seemed to work...that is her brothers turned their attention away from herself and toward Schechem. The thing she did not realize was that they were over-reacting and over-protective...they were planning to eliminate Schechem from the situation.
Dinah was too afraid to admit that she was physically attracted to Schechem. And when Schechem was killed by her brothers, she was even more afraid to admit the circumstances she found herself in. What an awful situation she found herself in...There was no way to turn around and change her story.
What a price she had to pay...she lost the guy that she fell for...watched her brothers kill him...because she did not want to admit to them that she made love with him and had strong romantic feelings for him...
I don't understand why her brothers felt so possessive about their sister. Why wouldn't they just let her make her own choices and decisions without them interfering in her life...Very sad....
So in Saskatoon you were Jezebel? That cold, wind-swept prairie land must have frozen their brains.
In ancient times men could take as booty any women of the lands they conquered and it was all fine and dandy. The Hebrews as a whole were a murderous, vengeful bunch and IMHO women didn't stand much chance of finding happiness in that sort of society. Kind of reminds me of the Taliban /
I have read that story of Dinah many times. I never understood it to be a rape. I picture Dinah being lonely for some friendship and taking up with the girls her age who lived where she did. One of them has a brother who's cute. Hormones do what hormones are supposed to do, and kissing and fondling leads to harder stuff. Dinah has some worries in the back of her mind, but her body is demanding satisfaction, and the sex that results is by mutual consent.
There are some facts that are left out of the Dinah story.
First, Levi and Simeon took as concubines and slaves the Canaanite women and children after they had killed their husbands and fathers.
12/15/63 WTp. 767 Questions from Readers
From where did excess wives and concubines come? For one thing, the Bible record tells us that at the time Jacob’s sons Simeon and Levi took it arbitrarily upon themselves to avenge the honor of their sister Dinah, they killed every male of the city of Shechem but took women and children as spoils, the women doubtless serving as both servants or slaves and concubines.
Do we hear about the results of their bad associations? Only one mention in all the WT publications.
It seems that for a time Judah moved away from his family and took a Canaanite wife. How did that work out? Well, three sons resulted from that unequal union, but Jehovah had to destroy two of them because of their badness. Simeon also had a son by a Canaanite.
And the WTS says it shows how rape is the woman's fault.
5/22/96 Awakep. 8 Sexual Harassment—How to Protect Yourself
10/15/80 WT p. 5 Avoiding the Tragedy of Rape
Watch your associations! The Bible tells us of a young woman named Dinah who became the victim of sexual assault. She evidently attracted the attention of her assailant because she regularly "used to go out to see the daughters of the land" of Canaan—women known for being promiscuous! (Genesis 34:1, 2) Similarly today, if you regularly chat with—or listen to—coworkers who are known for discussing prurient subjects, some might conclude that you would be receptive to sexual advances.
Although a man has no right to force a woman to have sex with him, under any circumstances, women need to be discerning as to how their actions are perceived by men. The chieftain’s son who raped Dinah may have assumed that to venture out by herself, Dinah must have been a girl of easy virtue. He may have concluded that her visits were not just to see some girl friends, but especially to see him. So he may have believed Dinah really wanted what she got.
In ancient times men could take as booty any women of the lands they conquered
They'd have to catch meeee first!!!! hehehe!
So he may have believed Dinah really wanted what she got.
They're not that far off from insinuating that she deserved what she got (rape, as per the WTS)!!
I used to find it hard to believe that she was actually raped. It said that she was "defiled", which meant that they had sex, but to Hebrew minds, that defiled her. Perhaps she was a virgin prior to her fling with Shechem? Whatever the case was, I always took the story to mean she had consensual sex.
Actually, Prisca, a QFR explores that point that she might have consented.
6/15/85 WT p. 31 Questions From Readers
Was Dinah, the daughter of Jacob, raped by Shechem, and was it solely an act of violence, or did he want to marry her?
They start out immediately saying:
Evidently Shechem had sex relations with Dinah against her will. He raped her.
Then they suggest it might have not been forced.
On one occasion during her regular visits, Shechem "took [Dinah] and lay down with her and violated her." Regarding the Hebrew word rendered "violated," A Hebrew and English Lexicon by William Gesenius states: "to deflower a woman, usually by force." This same word at Judges 19:24 and 20:5 is rendered "raped." However, a measure of consent on the part of the woman is indicated at Deuteronomy 22:24 where this same Hebrew word is used. Perhaps at the outset neither Shechem nor Dinah had in mind sex relations, but as his passion became aroused by the charms of this young, inquisitive virgin he, without any godly moral restraints, did what most Canaanite men would have considered natural. After all, she had come into his environment! When Dinah evidently objected to "going that far," he simply overpowered her.
But then it is right back to it being rape:
In the eyes of the depraved men of Canaan, Dinah became legitimate prey. She put herself in a compromising situation and paid for such with the loss of her virginity, despite any last-minute resistance.—
I checked every reference to Dinah in the WTS publications, and each and every time the WTS presents it as unwilling, forced. But it could be that it was better for the family honor for her to have been raped rather than having consented.
Two interesting sidepoints, supposedly Dinah never married (damaged goods?) and she was possibly in her early teens when this incident occurred!
Blondie, thanks for those WT references. I am looking for reference works on ancient Hebrew customs; it seems that as a tribal, patriarchal nation, they were probably really into protecting the family honour and Shechem + family were casualties. No mention of Dinah's future, she's no longer important, right?
Sure is different when one reads the Bible without Watchtower glasses on.