Evolution: The Deal Breaker

by Hadriel 150 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Hadriel

  First off I do believe there are some evidences of evolution or I should probably say adaptation. I do believe this exists in various forms.

  However the deal breaker for me with evolution is the chick or egg problem. There are tons of theories that get passed around as proof of evolution however these are usually examples much further down the evolutionary chain.

  What I mean is let's start at the beginning!

  How were the proteins of life, the makeup of DNA created without DNA? To me this is a very serious issue for evolution. RNA as a precursor is not plausible due to complexity so how did the proteins needed for life get created.

  How did simple amino acids by sheer chance get charged some how to where DNA was formed?

  Add to that what was the driver that caused these amino acids to be charged in such a way and where are the examples of this today?

  Although the makeup of these chemicals might have been happenstance they still exist so why don't we see the process repeating itself?

  Examples further down the chain are great but explain to me how the proteins of life formed without DNA. Explain the driver if that is your theory that caused simple amino acids to develop DNA/Proteins.

  I'm no expert other than due diligence I've done research wise. So feel free to make any corrections.

  I would appreciate sticking on topic and not providing things outside the scope of the afore mentioned. Let's start at the beginning as if proven the rest is academic anyway right?
• 

  cofty

  RNA as a precursor is not plausible due to complexity so how did the proteins needed for life get created

  I'm curious about why you know better about RNA as a precursor than experts working in the field.

  RNA can act as means of replication, an enzyme and a protein.

  Let's start at the beginning as if proven the rest is academic anyway right?

  Not at all. Evolution and abiogenesis are separate questions. Even if abiogenesis was never solved it would not undermine evolution one iota.

  The journey from the last common ancestor LUCA to millions of complex species is massive!

  This part is proven beyond all reasonable doubt.

  The question of how geochemistry became biochemistry is still unresolved but the progress made so far gives me confidence that it will be answered.

  "Life Ascending" by Nick Lane will give you much food for thought.
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  Island Man

  You are assuming that life started with the complex molecules we see today. When life first started it may have been far simpler than the simplest cells in existence today. So the whole DNA - protein synthesis system we know today may not have existed back then and only came into existence very gradually by processes we don't yet know of. I think the fundamental mistake here is the assumption that life started as the simplest cells in existence today, then you're taking this flawed assumption and throwing an argument from ignorance fallacy at it.
  
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  EndofMysteries

  I agree with you and that is also my question. There is no answer though. So some will believe that it just randomly happened somehow and others see it as proof of a creator.

  I see it as intelligent design but the fallacy of those who oppose that is they assume that admitting or believing in intelligent design means full acceptance of a religion or God belief. It could be that another advanced biological life form designed it and they are no longer around now, we are left trying to figure out our origins and what purpose of life. For now I believe we were designed, DNA as a coding language to design much life, and designed in a way to adapt and evolve. Beyond that, no idea atm. Who did it, why, if this is it, or an afterlife, etc.
• 

  cofty

  There are tons of theories that get passed around as proof of evolution however these are usually examples much further down the evolutionary chain.

  Not really.

  Progress has been made on isolating specific genes that go back all the way to LUCA.

  I will be doing a thread on HOX genes in my Evolution is a Fact series...
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  cofty

  For now I believe we were designed, DNA as a coding language to design much life, and designed in a way to adapt and evolve

  There is absolutely no evidence to justify that claim.

  It is a non-answer.
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  EndofMysteries

  There is absolutely no evidence to justify that claim.
  It is a non-answer.

  DNA is found in all life forms. (Viruses for debate if one considers them a life form). DNA works similar to computer programming code. As in the OP post, what came first the chicken or the egg...intelligent life using DNA as a programming code for all life forms on Earth.
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  cofty

  Although the makeup of these chemicals might have been happenstance they still exist so why don't we see the process repeating itself?

  Because once life has got established and evolved to exploit every possible niche the conditions that allowed it to get started - probably in alkaline vents under the ocean - no longer exist.

  Illustration of limited value - When you clear a patch of garden some fast growing annual weeds will take hold in year one. If you leave it longer the perennials will take a hold and your annuals will never be seen again.
• 

  WhatshallIcallmyself

  Hi,

  www.Talkorigins.org will have answers to those questions along with relevant references.

  As an aside, the egg was around before chicks (or chickens) evolved and abiogenesis theory is not evolution theory.
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  EndofMysteries

  Because once life has got established and evolved to exploit every possible niche the conditions that allowed it to get started - probably in alkaline vents under the ocean - no longer exist.

  If it could happen by random chance, then scientists should easily be able to put this 'soup' together.