Strong Circumstantial Evidence My Foot!

by Englishman 13 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Englishman

  Just noticed this in the "Pay Attention book". It's about what sort of evidence a JC can accept:

  What kind of evidence is acceptable?
  There must be two or three eyewitnesses, not just persons
  repeating what they have heard; no action can be taken if
  there is only one witness. (Deut. 19:15;Jol1ll 8:17)

  Confession (admission of wrongdoing), either written or
  oral, may be accepted as conclusive proof without other
  corroborating evidence. (Josh. 7:19)

  Strong circumstantial evidence, such as pregnancy or evi-dence (testified to by at least two witnesses) that the
  accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of
  the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known
  homosexual ) under improper circumstances, is acceptable.

  The testimony of youths may be considered; it is up to
  the elders to determine if the testimony has the ring of
  truth.

  The testimony of unbelievers may also be considered, but
  it must be carefully weighed.

  If there are two or three witnesses to the same kind of
  wrongdoing but each one is witness to a separate incident,
  their testimony can be considered.

  Such evidence may be used to establish guilt, but it is
  preferable to have two witnesses to the same occurrence
  of wrongdoing.

  I was just wondering how a widowed sister here in WSM would manage to run a guest house if she turned away the lucrative travelling salesmen who sought a night or two's lodgings?

  Surely this can't be right in this day and age!

  Englishman.
• 

  Simon

  They coudl have put it more simply:

  "We will accept whatever evidence we want which is convenient and corresponds with the decision we already want to take."
• 

  Xander

  That is kinda stupid when you think about it.

  Two people of the opposite sex spending a night in the same building qualifies as 'strong circumstantial evidence' that they had sex?

  LOLOL - too bad the JWs claim neutrality when it suits them. The UN should have, as part of the WT's job as an NGO, requested a JC be sent to Iraq to find the WMDs. LOLOL. Wouldn't have NEARLY as much ambiguity in the reports, then, now would we?

  This one is just as rich:

  or in the same house with a known homosexual

  I mean, c'MON, what if I'M not gay? Spending a night in the same building as a 'known homosexual' (LOLOL - the unknown ones are harmless, I guess, LOLOL) could be 'strong circumstantial evidence'?!? LOLOL - damn those nefarious homosexuals and their diabolical ways - able to convert any straight man with only a single night's stay!

  Crazyness.
• 

  blondie

  I thought it was amazing that that fornication and adultery stops at sunrise and does not start till sundown.

  Blondie
• 

  sandy

  Strong circumstantial evidence, such as pregnancy or evi-
  dence (testified to by at least two witnesses) that the
  accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of
  the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known
  homosexual ) under improper circumstances, is acceptable.

  Sounds like proof to me. How can it not be when JWs have all that pent-up sexual frustration?
• 

  blacksheep

  "Strong circumstantial evidence, such as pregnancy or evi-
  dence (testified to by at least two witnesses) that the
  accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of
  the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known
  homosexual ) under improper circumstances, is acceptable."

  Let's see. "Pregnancy" I can buy. I mean, the person's single, I would assume; if married, the pregnancy would be legit. But I wonder what "evidence" of pregnancy they might need? At least 2 or more First Response pregnancy tests???

  Then "evidence" that someone stayed all night in the same house with a person of the opposite sex or the same sex (with a homosexual) "UNDER IMPROPER CIRCUMSTANCES?" Hmm...what evidence are we talking about? a used condom, for example? A Barry White CD in the player, with a couple of half-empty glasses of wine on the coffeetable?

  I can see it now: exhibit A, B, & C.
• 

  blacksheep

  You know, I think the WTS could do some breakthrough work in determining sinners by contracting with forensic invesgitation. I mean, think of the possiblities: searching clothing for semen samples, trace pubic hairs, saliva (in of course *very* inappropriate places which would reflect activities unbecoming a Christian). Of course, members who refused inspection would be automatically *guilty*. That could really streamline the judicial process...
• 

  ozziepost

  under improper circumstances, is acceptable

  That's the key phrase, as far as the Borg is concerned. The type of situation you mention was discussed and disseminated from the Pharisees Service Department some years ago and is on the "allowed" list.

  Ozzie
• 

  greven

  that the accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of
  the opposite sex (or in the same house with a known
  homosexual ) under improper circumstances,

  Since 'improper circumstances' is not defined, the elders can deem anything they want an 'improper circumstance'.

  I can see it happening:

  Elder: Do you deny having sex with Ms B.Boobs ?

  Me: YES! We did no such thing.

  Elder: I call Ms S.Nobs and Ms G.Ossip to the stand.

  Elder: Miss S and Miss G, could you tell me what you two saw?

  Miss G&S: We saw Greven and Ms Boobs sitting on the sofa in his house. He was wearing a bermuda and T-shirt and she was wearing a skirt well above the knee.

  Elder: Well, Greven do you deny this?

  Me: No, what's wrong with sitting on the sofa anyway?

  Elder: Well, everything ofcourse! There was no other person inside to supervise the situation, you were of opposite sex, and her skirt was inappropiate for God sake!

  Me: So what does this prove?

  Elder: That you stayed in the same house with a person of the opposite sex under improper circumstances. Hence, you are quilty of fornicating.

  Me: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

  Greven
• 

  JT

  we have a new tech here at work who is a jw, he is in a pickle, his wife filed for divorce and since it was not on fornication grounds he can't remarry-

  his elders are complete A$$ Holes and the Socieiy supports them completely

  this is the techicality that they are stuck on:

  that the
  accused stayed all night in the same house with a person of
  the opposite sex

  they are stuck on "ALL NIGHT" the sexual activity must take place at night,

  he has seen the man going to his wife house during the day, she claims he is the handy man,- smile- she was told that he can never remarry as long as she denies any sex so she is dogging my boy

  anyway i asked him did he go over the heads of the local pastors to the higher ups and he wrote a letter to bethel and the wt supported the local elders

  so until the man stays at night the elders have told him that he can't do anything

  he has met a jw woman and they can't get married, i asked him what would happen if they found out he was seeing another woman while still having the status of being married-

  he told me that he could be excommunicated- i wanted to laugh - excommunicated - as if i would not understand

  the deal is here at work no one is going to tell him i am a former elder and bethelite

  they want to see for themselves how he deals with what i am about to drop on him in the coming weeks

  I am going to tear his A$$ to Shreds, eiether he will leave wt or he will quit this job-

  as he knows am in college taking classes on critical thinking, etc, and i have been telling him we are dealling with Belief Systems that claim divine backing, etc

  the nonjw are loving it to death

  this is just an example of how techical the wt rules can be and how they impact the lives of their members daily

  so sad