Fossils fail to provide a connection

by Doug Mason 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    Page 24 of “The Origin of Life” cites Henry Gee:

    A second, more serious challenge is the lack of proof that those creatures are somehow related. Specimens placed in the series are often separated by what researchers estimate to be millions of years. Regarding the time spans that separate many of these fossils, zoologist Henry Gee says: “The intervals of time that separate the fossils are so huge that we cannot say anything definite about their possible connection through ancestry and descent.” (Brochure’s footnote: Henry Gee does not suggest that the theory of evolution is wrong. His comments are made to show the limits of what can be learned from the fossil record.) – In Search of Deep Time—Beyond the Fossil Record to a New History of Life, by Henry Gee, 1999, p. 23.

    ======

    The following is the immediate context of the passage.

    ======

    It has been a productive week. Nzube, Gabriel, Robert, and others on the team have unearthed hominid remains—no complete skulls or skeletons, because these are rare indeed, but evidence enough that could, after study, reveal something about the hominids that had lived in this region 3.3 million years ago.

    In all, it has taken approximately 250 man-hours of work to produce enough hominid fragments to half-fill a tin box that Meave carries around on the passenger seat of her truck. Almost all the specimens were pieces of tooth. It does not sound like much, given all that effort, but it is more than most fossil hunters expect, even from a site that had already yielded a few hominid bones and had earlier been marked as promising.

    Before I told everyone else about my own find, straddled on that ridge overlooking an expanse of space and, figuratively, an expanse of time, I wondered fleetingly if it might have been part of a hominid—perhaps half a tooth, like the one Gabriel found. In my mind I was already holding the fragment between finger and thumb, turning it over in the light. The question immediately presented itself: could this fossil have belonged to a creature that was my direct ancestor?

    It is possible, of course, that the fossil really did belong to my lineal ancestor. Everybody has an ancestry, after all. Given what the Leakeys and others have found in East Africa, there is good reason to suspect that hominids lived in the Rift before they lived anywhere else in the world, so all modern humans must derive their ancestry, ultimately, from this spot, or somewhere near it.

    It is therefore reasonable to suppose that we should all be able to trace our ancestries, in a general way, to creatures that lived in the Rift between roughly 5 and 3 million years ago. So much is true, but it is impossible to know, for certain, that the fossil I hold in my hand is my lineal ancestor. Even if it really was my ancestor, I could never know this unless every generation between the fossil and me had preserved some record of its existence and its pedigree. The fossil itself is not accompanied by a helpful label.

    The truth is that my own particular ancestry—or yours—may never be recovered from the fossil record. The obstacle to this certain knowledge about lineal ancestry lies in the extreme sparseness of the fossil record. As noted above, if my mystery skull belonged to an extinct giant civet, Pseudocivetta ingens, it would be the oldest known record of this species by a million years. This means that no fossils have been found that record the existence of this species for that entire time; and yet the giant civets must have been there all along. Depending on how old giant civets had to be before they could breed (something else we can never establish, because giant civets no longer exist so that we can watch their behaviour), perhaps a hundred thousand generations lived and died between the fossil found by me at site LO5 and the next oldest specimen.

    In addition, we cannot know if the fossil found at LO5 was the lineal ancestor of the specimens found at Olduvai Gorge or Koobi Fora. It might have been, but we can never know this for certain. The intervals of time that separate the fossils are so huge that we cannot say anything definite about their possible connection through ancestry and descent. (Gee, pages 22-23; underlining added)

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Well, duh...

    ...sure, fossils "fail to provide a connection", if you're looking for every single link in the fucking chain.

    You'd need a lot more fossils for that, and we tend to forget that only a tiny percentage get preserved through sheer luck and happenstance.

    ...

    One of the things about creationists that especially irritate me is when they try to play the evidence card.

    They're willing to latch onto even the most minor scraps that supposedly reinforce their position...

    ...whilst demanding amounts of evidence from "evolutionists" that are, quite frankly, impossible to provide, since we're fortunate just to have what we already do.

    (All on purpose, I'm sure.)

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    Yes the big argument creationist propagate is where are the in between species in the fossil record ?

    being totally demisive to the fact that specie fossils have to be in a special unusual environment to survive and not erode overtime .

  • LoveUniHateExams
    LoveUniHateExams

    Here's a fossil that's been repeatedly called a link ...

    Image result for archaeopteryx fossil

    It looks very much like a link to me. Teeth in the jaw, three fingered hand and a long bony tail (therapod dinosaur); hollow bones and feathers (bird).

  • iwantoutnow
    iwantoutnow

    This entry seems to blow away all I was taught by the Science Experts at the WT. :)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transitional_fossil

  • rickroll
    rickroll

    There is a ton more proof of evolution than creation. There is no evidence of creation. The flood story is fake made up. No global flood ever happened. The special circumstances it takes to create a fossil its no wonder that there is missing links. that is the nature of the way they come about. Not to mention that the way humans are built is not all the best for a god that is perfect. The eye alone is not well made if it was created by a god.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    The key words are "definitive" and "specimens". Science is always improving the picture. As far as human evolution, what was (rather optimistically) thought to be a simple line of decent has become very branchy recently. It is impossible to assert dogmatically whether a particular fossil represents a dead end lineage that existed contemporaneously with our ancestral line, or from our direct ancestral line. Even with the hundreds of hominid individual fossils we now have there is still plenty of room for debates about the particular relationships Who's a cousin and who's a grandfather. The picture is pretty well defined but improving every year and more will come to be sure with advances in genetic analysis. What this does not call into question is that there were ancestral hominids and whether homo sapiens are a few thousand year old species.

    https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/the-origin-of-our-species.html

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    The way that the author of the "Origin of Life" brochure uses the words from Henry Gee's book, he wishes to make it look as if Gee is speaking about transitions from "fishes to amphibians" . Here is the brochure's context:

    =====

    "What, though, of the fossils that are used to show fish changing into amphibians, and reptiles into mammals? Do they provide solid proof of evolution in action? Upon closer inspection, several problems become obvious. …

    "A second, more serious challenge is the lack of proof that those creatures are somehow related. Specimens placed in the series are often separated by what researchers estimate to be millions of years. Regarding the time spans that separate many of these fossils, zoologist Henry Gee says: The intervals of time that separate the fossils are so huge that we cannot say anything definite about their possible connection through ancestry and descent.("The Origin of Life", page 24)

    ====
    As the passage from Gee showed, he is speaking about direct lineal ancestry of a single species separated by millions of years.

    Doug

  • jonahstourguide
    jonahstourguide

    Thank you Doug Mason.

    For another thoroughly informative and logical project. Timely in that some 'ubers' in my neck of the woods

    are pushing the use of said brochure.

    jtg

  • Doug Mason

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