Subjection Does No-One Any Good.

by Englishman 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Englishman

    I’ve been thinking a lot about this subjection thing that is so much a part of WT teaching.

    I mean, what is the point of it? Who does it benefit?

    Why can’t couples work out a ‘who does what’ pattern that suits themselves, why should they pay any heed to the WTBTS’s edicts about women being in subjection?

    It’s not just detrimental to women either, it’s a burden to men as well. Having to be in the spotlight all the time and responsible for everyone’s behaviour is a terrible imposition for any male.

    My Auntie Lou has had 4 marriage proposals since being widowed. Guess why she says no! She values her independence too much, why should she pool her considerable material possessions with some guy who is going to demand submissiveness from her as well?

    Surely people these days, especially the upcoming generations, must find this whole subjection / submission thing ludicrous in the extreme. The idea that a sister has to fill in her field service report as sister Fred Bloggs is incredibly demeaning.

    IMO this whole belief is out of date, outmoded and isulting, in fact it's almost on a par with xenophobia. One thing I know for sure, it has no place in the lives of those who care for each other.


  • Mommie Dark
    Mommie Dark

    Careful Englishman, you tread perilous close to blasphemY! Us wimminz are weak vessels, prone to sin, led by our ovaries to be silly featherheaded broads or foolish cows. Now get with the program and take up that rod!

    !!!!! ;) ;)

    In our household, we have worked out a system where the best-qualified person delegates to the rest. Whoever has the most training or expertise leads the way. Nobody has a problem following instructions. Nobody feels threatened by being told what to do, or how to do it, or when, if it serves the greater good of the household. I have no qualms submitting myself to someone else if they are the designated boss. Thus if my 9-year-old son knows more about something than me, he leads. We all follow Papa's word as law in all technical aspects of our home. Nobody feels threatened by acting subordinate if it serves the family's purpose.

    If you used the words 'headship' or 'humble submission' in our house you would get blown out the door by the gusts of laughter. If you prove you are the best man for the task at hand, though, everyone here will line up to find out how you want stuff handled, and then do their best to carry it out successfully. (this is the ideal, mind you, we fight and argue and stravage along like any other family, ;D. But we don't have anyone claiming 'headship' by virtue of gender or age or other pointless criteria.)

    Dunno why some folks (mostly menz) are threatened by such an arrangement but dang, some peoples have MEAN things to say about it! Fortunately we all have elephant hides when it comes to criticism of our...eccentricities...besides it works for us so why go back to an archaic and awkward system?

  • SixofNine

    hhhmmmmm...I can see who wears the pants on this db.

  • patio34

    Good point. Most religions in the past were for and about men. The Mitras religion of the Persians and Romans, that some claim Christianity was based on because of the many similarities, was for men only.

    Even in the New Testament, there are many metaphors such as putting on suit of armor, soldiers of Christ, fight the good fight, etc., that refer to warfare. Some writers feel this is a throwback to the roots of Mithras and is contrary to the theme of NT as God of love and no warfare.

    Back to the point, these are men's metaphors, not women's. Women are mentioned often in the bible as how to deal with them. Not that the religion is for them necessarily.

    Hence, the whole submission thing.

    Plus, the culture didn't offer much for women. Today's world is much different, and it has many avenues for women and their skills and talents. So, the Bible really doesn't fit the modern world.

    My 2 cents,

  • DrunkWithLiberty

    I agree so much with ykour post. My husband was so burdened with the whole head of house deal. When I left the org. first, he felt a huge responsibility for my demise and the children's. Here I am, an adult, and he is feeling guilty over something that was entitely my decision.
    He is a very careful person and sometimes very indecisive by nature. This teaching made him an even worse decision maker.
    I, of course, always felt subhuman because of the subjection thing. It caused me to treat and view myself as a lesser one.
    Now that we are out, our marriage is great (it was not paradise when we were following the familly book advise). My husband is so much better at making decisions (his own) and we make all family decisions together and compromise when we don't agree.
    Take care and enjoy the weekend,

  • willy_think
    willy_think every aspect of life and thought....

    the ideas and opinions expressed in this post do not necessiarly represent those of the WTB&TS inc. or any of it's subsidiary corporations.
  • TR

    Some men are just not natural leaders anyway. Why put a milktoast or inept dude in charge when he's just going to screw up, or get pissed when the others don't respect him. I like the way md's household is run. It makes sense. Things get done correctly and efficiently. It's the way things are done in my house. It better be that way if I want to get any!

    When an ass-kicking needs to take place, I'm in charge.(not talking about my family) My wife decides what happens in all aspects of running the house and property. She's a great manager. I decide what goes on in the garage and how something get fixed and/or sent out for repair. She makes all decisions on how to run her business, I decide how to run mine. Everybody in the house is responsible for cleaning their own messes. Although, I have to admit, my wife usually ends up doing more than her share. I'll have to work on that one.


  • Flip
    Flip every aspect of life and thought....

    Exactly willy_think!

    I seriously doubt the WTBTS actually believes this Biblical crap regarding subjection anymore than the Biblical writers who put it there.

    But there’s little doubt that this ancient teaching of one having to differ to those in authority is a handy little thought process that illustrates how authoritarian entities can effectively control others using a hierarchal system.

    The WTBTS may not be as adept at using the precept of submission as Islam, but the interest of the WTBTS lay in a different direction.


  • tergiversator
    Why can’t couples work out a ‘who does what’ pattern that suits themselves, why should they pay any heed to the WTBTS’s edicts about women being in subjection?

    That's what I always wondered about, Englishman, but hey, what did I know? I was just a feeble minded young woman.

    -tergiversator, who knew enough to say "I'm outta here"

  • Geoff

    Flip said...

    I seriously doubt the WTBTS actually believes this Biblical crap regarding subjection anymore than the Biblical writers who put it there.

    So what you are saying is that the bible is crap, and that the Bible writers that put it in there where just doing some extra writing and figured what the heck why not put in some stuff so that we can get some more booty? Maybe even some women slaves? BAH! Have you totaly forgoten about who encouraged freedom from God's headship in the first place? Lets see, I cant quite remember who it was. Maybe it was that Satan guy.

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