Apparently Jehovah uses theocratic warfare strategy too. What an incredible heap of twaddle. Jehovah provides false prophecies to his prophets, thereby making the instructions in Deut 18:22 totally ineffective. This elder's side of the conversation comes across like Alpine Lace Swiss Cheese.
What I want to know is how these guys look at themselves in the mirror each morning. They must be having massive problems with cognitive dissonance. I would.
This just goes to show how powerful a cult can be. I just wonder when the time comes which flavor Kool-Aid they'll use.
Very interesting conversation you had with that elder, though you should be counting your lucky stars that he came alone. Often times, elders will be a bit more open when alone. I wonder how much he would have said had another elder been there.
You made some very good points, including the one about a different "understanding" being taken from the same commentaries that were very old with regard to the Generation thing in '95. Amazing how they can use the same quotes but now arrive at a new understanding and claim support form those same sources.
Excellent, Search. Thoroughly enjoyed your recounting of events. Interestingly, Ive had a dub coming "studying" with me recently, He comes alone at my insistence, Ive noticed that, he too, like your elder, can be surprisingly open on occassions. He admitted that the Child molestation thing on TV bothered him greatly. And the shunning. Actually he walked right into the child molestation thing himself by daring to tell me about the catholic church and how it is full of pedophiles, So I let him have it with both barrels.Perhaps they can be themselves momentarily when alone with a "worldling" .or perhaps they are merely looking at things, temporarily while talking with a worldling, thru a filter thatr they dont normally use, a more open filter. I picked my dub up numerous times during the course of our last study when he made categorical statements.(All JWs are honest. JWs dont swear) He seemed to be under the impression that everyone that was a dub was more intrinsically honest than a person who, say, joined the mormons. I had to adjust his thinking numerous times,
The reasoning on "Truth at this time" that you mentioned is a "present truth" line of reasoning. Its a very common line of arguement in groups that have a history of false prophecy. Keep up the good work!!
I spoke to SFT the next day after the meeting and he hit the elder with a lot more stuff than he has posted here. He made some very telling points. Good thing for him was that he could say he had researched all of them himself. For example he had the email he had sent to the UN re Library Card which shot down the WTS explanation that they needed NGO status to get access to the library!
Having met him and spoke to SFT, he has a very clear and precise manner about him. this info would have gone over pretty well. See what happens next! Any guesses?!
Thanks ISP (i'll pay you that fiver next time I see you)
I think it all depends on if he comes back alone ( or at all ) or if he comes back with another elder. Or I may find that the next contact I have with him is in front of a judicial commitee!
I gave him copies of all the relevant documents and thay are all scans of originals. He did at one point say that I was being fed all this info by apostates and so I am glad I could point to the originals and show it was my own research, although I wouldn't know half the stuff if it hadn't been for this site and everyones fantastic research.
What points do you think I should try and push with him if he comes back?
Well one pt, I've been thinking about was his overall pt. regarding 1950! Anything before 1950 could be taken with a pinch of salt. Well, prior to 1950 the WTS got most of its key dates. 1914,1919, 1931, 1935....also a good deal of literature post 1950 is utter garbage! I think you should be able to demonstrate that even after 1950, the WTS has stumbled from one embarassment to another. Really he would have been better to say that anything written 5 yrs ago could be dismissed!
If you get the chance to 'study' it would be handy for you to discuss one of your objections first. give him notice and ask him to research it etc. Hope you feel upto it! After all, you are up against a spirit-appointed elder (that does some circuit work), the spirit directed organisation, the 144,000 now ruling or part thereof, the angelic forces in mid-heaven and other places, Jesus ruling as king who has the elders in his right hand, Jehovah God the almighty who can use antimatter and cosmic rays if ya get him really mad, (I would recommend sunglasses and wrapping youself in baking foil) and the GB who defy incontinence somehow.
I've got my tin-foil hat ready like the kids in SIGNS.
It really was a strange thing to say about dismissing the early literature. The society is forever quoting from it themselves ( millions now living...etc) but we can't look at it to see what else it says. very strange...
Dear searchfothetruth: I am impressed you put up with this person for three hours. But please don't be surprised if he doesn't come back. If a brother came to me with any version of this and asked my opinion when I was a J-dud in good standing my response would be to stay clear of you. I would have you summond to an inquisition at the Hall and hear you out there. And in the interim all manner of 'facts' would be gathered about you.
When you are dealing with one person the J-dud mind will be more yielding but they gather strength as a 'body'. They have a gang mentality and will plan to use it on you. Be prepared! Maverick