Outlaw, he died due to a genetic defect....no help from me. Maybe he died of fear of having another finger broken, I was just defending myself.
Has Anyone Ever Just Gotten Mad and "Popped" an Elder?
blondie -- you're bomb!
Righteous indignation made me feel that way yesterday - I sure wanted to do exactly that. Not physically, that's just not my nature, but mentally. I kept my cool though, and my dignity. It only feeds their assumptions about you as the "enemy" to do otherwise.
Never let the emotion of their inappropriate behaviour cause you to lose your cool.
As doubtfull1799 says, it will only reinforce their idea that WE are the mentally diseased ones....
Remember the scripture that says "return evil for evil to no-one...as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all"
However, that doesn't mean we cant politely yet firmly remind them of "APPROPRIATE BOUNDARIES" and behaviour!
Many elders feel that they have the power over us and the right to overstep appropriate boundaries.
However the only power they have over us is that which we allow
Blondie > There was a touchy, feely elder in my congregation and he had assaulted 4 sisters, one married, but her husband was afraid to do anything.
That elder came up to me in a swimming pool at a jw party and tried to grab me, I broke his finger. He told others he had broken on the bottom of the pool when he jumped in. The homeowners were afraid he would sue them, but he didn't. He showed up at work where my family member worked, and they knew I had broken his finger and why. The touching stopped......fortunately he died not long after that....
What is it that instills this fear of elders? Can anyone explain?? They're appointed positions, so the leadership should expect that abuses would pop up from time to time. Or do they just automatically support the elders? What would have happened had you and your friends just pulled the shunning routine on the elder?
Blondie > ...he died due to a genetic defect....
Complications having to do with an infection of the right index finger. Seriously, if it came down to your word against his, what do you think would have happened?
Sparky1 > When I was at Watchtower Farms, a young fellow got drunk and punched Frank Lewis (the Home Overseer) in the face! He was sent home immediately.
Geesh, I can barely wait to read your book! How long did you spend there? This guy who writes under the name Brock Talon said the authorities were really tough on smoking, but that lots of people had problems with alcohol because the folks at Bethel permitted it.
I was having issues with my closeted gay Elder roommate. He kept making passes at me and I had enough of that and went to Frank Lewis about it to get a room reassignment. Frank got furious with me for 'making accusations against an Elder' and threatened to physically 'throw me out of Bethel'. I told Frank that if he laid a hand on me that I would lay him out then and there. Later, I confronted my roommate about the whole issue and got into a big argument with him at the 'tool crib' in the factory. I grabbed him and was going to beat the shit out of him and he started to scream like an old woman.
When you had your problem with Lewis, how long did it take for the conversation to go South?
Any chance that Lewis rolled that way, too? Generally, when a guy makes a pass at another guy, there's no room for taking it the wrong way. He was either accusing you of misreading the guy or of lying. The latter is enough to get your jaw bent in most places my way. Can't imagine how the leadership would react to having two people hitting the same guy.
Figurative "popping." In this case, the entire BOE.
Regarding very sensitive family issues, the elders never talked to me and asked what was going on nor did they offer help. A few letters to the Society, from me, seemed to get their attention.
As I have related in other threads, privileges were taken away from me but never was there a word of explanation, never advance notice.
There was a flood in our area years ago. Two well liked elders were arguing about logistics and came to blows. It was awesome. I thought, "finally some passion!".
People are afraid of the elders because the elders can disfellowship you and take everything from you that you hold dear. You are also taught that they're appointed by God himself, so if you go against them, you're really going against God, and then you'll lose your hope of everlasting life. Fear drives people to not take up for themselves, like with any bully. Members are indoctrinated to look up to those men, to see them as appointed by Jehovah, to obey and be blessed.
I almost got into it with one elder. My brother had left and moved to another area of the city and was living with some girl. He just wanted to get away from the JWs and live life. I was concerned, and I found out what street he lived on and knocked doors until I found him. But I was concerned as his brother, not as a brother from the congregation, and I missed him. We hung out some. The elders found out (from my dad, who was an elder) that I knew where my brother lived. One confronted me in the auditorium and wanted me to give him his address. I told them no, and this elder got irate. I eventually told him to go search for the lost sheep like I did, that he should leave the 99 behind and go knock doors and find him like I did if he truly cared about my brother and this wasn't merely a punitive issue. Another elder stepped in before it came to blows. Everyone in the auditorium was watching. I hated that elder. He was such a dick. They eventually just hunted my brother down at his place of employment and served him with notice of a judicial committee when he came out of his job. He was disfellowshipped by default as he didn't attend and lost everyone he knew from the dubs, including his family.
So yeah, elders hold some clout. They are enforcers. To get into an altercation would likely have repercussions, possibly even disfellowshipping.
Dubstepped » You are also taught that they're appointed by God himself, so if you go against them, you're really going against God, and then you'll lose your hope of everlasting life.
Yeah, but the GB has said categorically that they (and this would extend to those under them) do not receive revelation or even inspiration from God. I'm LDS (Mormon) and my church is based on apostles, prophets, revelation and inspiration. If the LDS church announced that it did not receive revelation as the ancient church did, we would have millions of Mormons leaving the church overnight. The WTBTS says it doesn't receive revelation or inspiration, then what does it provide when it chooses elders and other officers? It becomes like the parable of the blind leading the blind.
The GB is supposed to be the faithful and wise servant who feeds the household of God and is responsible to God for managing His Household. But if God hired them and gave them the keys to the house and front gate, plus the right to distribute the chow, wouldn't the servant know about it (as it's a binding agreement between them and God)? Yet none of the GB members has seen an angel, none has spoken to God and none has received the keys of the kingdom that were given to Peter. Jesus said to the ancient Twelve, "For you have not chosen me, but I have chosen you and ordained you." So when these apostles chose elders, I concede that if they were called and chosen of God, then those elders at least could make a claim to back up their flashlights, guns, uniforms and badges that go with the job.
So why do the JWs believe the elders are appointed by God? It's a fundamental question for someone who can take away your wife [SNAP!], other family members [SNAP!], friends [SNAP!] and fellow worshippers like that [SNAP!] If GB members really were God's chosen and appointed servants, I could at least understand why they might revere them and their apointees, but the GB has been denying inspiration and revelation for years, right?
So where does the idea come from that elder selections are of God when they can do so much damage? (Including causing suicides, which I also should have asked about.) Surely people with that kind of power could conceivably drive people to do that if the power is abused.