are there really 8 million jw's?

by wannaexit 22 Replies latest jw friends

  • wannaexit

    Last circuit assembly there was 700+ present and 1 baptized.

    Recently there was a foreign language assemble of over 500 and 1 baptized.

    In the last 5-10 years I haven't been to one assembly where there has been more than a handful baptized.

    At the memorial all I see are the same old faces that have been coming since the flood.

    The hall complex I attend has 6 congregation and several groups-there is negative growth. When you factor in the demographically aging folk and the many who have already passed away, I don't know where they get the 8 million.

    I know that most of the growth is from the developing countries, but still I think they are fudging their numbers. Nothing will surprise me anymore from this evil entity called watchtower.

  • OneEyedJoe

    The numbers are fudged to be sure - especially if you're counting "peak publishers" where they double/triple count publishers (usually in august) who are hounded into turning in time for past months that they "forgot" to turn in. Probably a lot of these are 1-hour slips that are either fabricated by the publisher or by the elders to avoid getting the 3rd degree from the CO.

    There are lots of folks here who talk about turning in fake time, or their group overseer turning in fake time on their behalf. I'm sure it's not an isolated occurrence. Plus when you consider that they can count time for working construction or for "studying" with children (which is often just saying "look at this pretty bug that jehovah made" a few times a day) or counting 15 minutes for people in a nursing home because their kid put a magazine on their lap and wheeled them around. They're definitely below 8 million active JWs.

    If you want to exclude active JWs that no longer believe but are stuck in the cult, there's another group that's probably not an insignificant size.

  • Crazyguy
    the numbers are fudged all the way from the congregations up through the time slips. The counters at the halls now count every one that's attending even babies. Same with the assemblies etc. Remember that they count every one that's a publisher, even little kids.
  • goingthruthemotions

    I am with you....i think they fudge the numbers. unfortunately i still have to go...but rest assured. me and my boys are mentally out. would say the average number at the hall my wife goes to is ~35 zombies and of those.....i would say that the majority are over 60 yrs old. (poor lost souls)

    i just don't get where they get there numbers from

  • Simon

    The numbers have to be exaggerated ... there is no scenario where people who are free and clear submit time-slips but plenty where people are trapped in the cult and need to keep up the pretense of reporting time even though they don't really preach. And we've all worked with "pioneers" who spend an hour walking up and down town and suddenly are claiming to have done 3 hours ministry even though the only person they spoke to was Joe schmuck publisher who got paired up with them due to being the only one to show up.

    They count all the hangers-on and loose associates as "publishers" even though they only turn up once a year at the memorial. We used to call one guy the Sundown Kid because that's the only time you saw him - after sundown on Nisan 14 (maybe it was the Nisan kid ... I get mixed up with movies and reality).

    The beauty (for them) of the lack of clear membership is they get to count people as members when it suits them but later deny they are members when they screw up and become an embarrassment.

  • Mary J Blige
    Mary J Blige
    Do they count all baptised but not DA'd? Even though you're inactive? That's the only way I could see the numbers could be fudged.
  • The Rebel
    The Rebel

    wannaexit,(Q) " Are there really 8 million Jehovers Witnesses?"

    The Rebel ( A) wannaexit your personal situation answers that question.

    The Rebel.

  • bohm
    I think the only real way to know is to compare the response to e.g. PEW surveys with the publisher number. If the ratio changes this could indicate a change in reporting.
  • done4good

    Since the membership accounting is based on turning in "time", there is lots of room for fudging. This is done from Joe/Jane publisher, all the way to the top.

    First of all, consider that members are constantly coerced to actually turn in time. There is a negative social stigma associated with not doing so, in the form of being labeled "irregular", or "inactive". Nobody wants those labels, if they care about their status in the congregation. There is no telling how many individual members turn in time that have zero desire to do so.

    Secondly, the organization is not transparent in how it performs the accounting to begin with. What is a "publisher" really? Must they be baptized to be counted? Do they count heads when convenient? There are so many things that can be "adjusted" behind the scenes, that numbers can be spun positive for some time just by changing what is being counted.

    Figures don't lie, but liars can figure.


  • done4good

    To add...

    Also consider that many/most JWs have children these days. This was not the case before the mid-1990s. The 1-2% growth that is reported is roughly consistent with population growth. No converts here.

    Most converts are in underdeveloped countries, (at least where things such as sharia law do not exist), or those with severe social issues.

    Any increase in numbers in developed countries is based on the fudging above, children being born and "publishing", and immigrant migration.


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