by UnDisfellowshipped 27 Replies latest jw friends
Mouthy,
( now deceased) used to sit at every meal & laugh his head of at "You silly Bitch" as I sat praying in front of my children
Sorry for saying this .....but he sounded like a real ass. Calling you a bitch in front of your children is pretty darn low.
Gumby
am so glad to be out of this nonsense!
Wow, it is amazing how many barrels of ink a publishing company can milk out of this instance of local needs advice to a first century congregation in Greece.
It's kinda funny this topic should come up... was just watching a documentary the other day on the role women played in the early days of christianity (first few hundred years) and the Professor (proper title escapes me) who teaches at one of the major colleges where future Priests study who strongly believes the Apostle Paul wasn't quite the sexist most believe he is but quite the opposite.
His way of thinking (yet to do any research myself on this... lack of time) was Paul actually held a lot of respect for women and regarded them as equals to men. He pointed to a scripture (um... yeah... forgotten where... will research) which describes the role of delivering his letters (and thus the teachings of Christ), one of the most important roles and one which should be given only to someone who can be trusted to complete this task both timely and accurately. The job was usually given to.... **drum roll**.... a woman.
It wasn't until Christianity was a few hundred years old that women started to be forced into the background.... after the Apostle Paul's time apparently. Would love to find out more actually.
Did find this...
A verse in the first letter to Timothy, 1 Timothy 2:12 ("I suffer not a woman") , traditionally attributed to Paul, is often used as the main biblical authority for prohibiting women from becoming ordained clergy and or holding certain other positions of ministry and leadership in Christianity, though Paul's authorship of this letter is debated. The Letter to Timothy is also often used by many churches to deny women a vote in church affairs, reject women from serving as teachers of adult Bible classes, prevent them from serving as missionaries, and generally disenfranchise women from the duties and privileges of church leadership. [92]
1st Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
The KJV translation of this passage seems [clarification needed] to be saying that women in the churches are to have no leadership roles vis-à-vis men. [93] Whether it also forbids women from teaching children and women is dubious as even those Catholic churches that prohibit female priests, permit female abbesses to teach and exercise authority over other females. Any interpretation of this portion of Scripture must wrestle with the theological, contextual, syntactical, and lexical difficulties embedded within these few words. [94] Fuller Seminary theologian J. R. Daniel Kirk finds evidence in Paul’s letters of a much more inclusive view of women. He writes that Romans 16 is a tremendously important witness to the important role of women in the early church. Paul praises Phoebe for her work as a deaconess and Junia who was (according to some scholars) an Apostle. Kirk points to recent studies that have led "many scholars" to conclude that the passage in 1 Corinthians 14 ordering women to "be silent" during worship was a later addition, apparently by a different author, and not part of Paul’s original letter to the Corinthians. Other scholars such as Giancarlo Biguzzi, claim that Paul's restriction on women speaking in 1Corinthians 14 is genuine to Paul but applies to a particular case of prohibiting asking questions or chatting and is not a general prohibition on any woman speaking since in 1Corinthians 11 Paul affirms the right of women to prophesy. [95] Kirk's third example of a more inclusive view is Galatians 3:28 : "There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus (italics added). In pronouncing an end within the church to the divisions which are common in the world around it, he concludes by highlighting the fact that "...there were New Testament women who taught and had authority in the early churches, that this teaching and authority was sanctioned by Paul, and that Paul himself offers a theological paradigm within which overcoming the subjugation of women is an anticipated outcome." [96]
strain at the gnat and swallow the camel
I was raised in the religion but by parents who never studied with me and I was never allowed to ask questions. It was just do as I was told period. So what I knew about the"truth" was what I learned was from the meetings and personal study.
My dad was not baptized until I was 12 years old and all four of us were baptized together, my mom sister dad and I. We never ate dinner at the table always just sitting in front of the TV or at fast food places. We NEVER PRAYED as a family NEVER. It was like my parents were against praying. I know, I know it was strange. I grew up in a totally nut case family.
So here I am 16 years old, baptized and I was given this study with a 20 something year old women who had been raised around the truth but never baptized. This one day only an elder who was in his 60 was out in service so it was just the two of us.
So here we are at my study and I am really stressed out conducting in front of this elder who is very, very, very hard core. So of course the elder says the prayer and then he expects me to conduct the study. So I am trying so hard to be perfect and he says to us the study and I "what about the angles?" I am totally confused and just look blankly at him. He again says the angles are watching you know! I was again just thinking OK so the angles are watching and what am I doing wrong? The study is as confused as I am.
Turns out he was flipped out and mad that I did not have a head covering. I had never heard of it. Somehow I must have missed the meetings it was talked about the study also did not know.
I was horrified. I would up putting a paper towel on my head. I truly thought the elder was crazy until I got home and looked it up. I just could not believe that JW's truly believed that women were to put head coverings on, it just seemed totally crazy.
OH how I wished that had woken me up at only 16 but my family was so crazy that the JW's seemed normal and I stayed until I was in my 40's I so wish I could go back in time and tell my 16 year old self to RUN!!!
LITS
