Osama on the run...

by dolphman 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • hillary_step


    In the 50's the problem was not with radical Muslims Fark. It was with Algerians who were wanting to see the backs of the French in North Africa. It was a problem at first not of religion but of Colonialism. The French answered the growing militancy in Algeria, and the streets of Paris with force. It did not resolve the problem but gave birth to a generation of angry young men who sought to find a release for their frustrations at their treatment in a religion and a ‘pieds noir’ movement which has time and again proven itself able to channel these kinds of feelings into the glorious action of martyrdom with alarming ease.

    HS wrote : : I believe that the French, who tackled the Muslim problem in their own nation with weapons in the 50’s and lost, have learned a great lesson. Coexistence might never be possible, but education and compromise will certainly keep the streets a little cleaner of gore.

    This statement is idiotic. Consider the logic: The radical Muslims were a problem to the French.

    The Algerians of course saw it another way….lol

    As I note above you must not confuse the political aspirations of the Algerians with what later became a religious conflict. In fact this proves my point. If this matter had been handled with negotiation and understanding it may not have given the radicals who populated the mosques and who were waiting for such opportunities the wherewithal to sow their seeds.

    The French tried to deal with the PROBLEM for them and lost. Therefore, educate and compromise with the PROBLEM.

    Fark. They tried to deal with the problem and lost because they approached the problem from the the wrong angle. In fact the same angle that the US is taking at present. That is my whole and only point Fark.They tried to destroy an ideology with weapons and this caused only to give birth to a many headed monster. My point is that the French have learned somewhat ( but not completely ) from the lessons of history and understand the necessity of making sure that every avenue is explored within the UN resolutions before weapons are used again. In short, the French understand the Arab mind, the US have a woefully inadequate understanding of the thinking of non-Americans.They know that as soon as Iraq is attacked Paris will be bombed and they want to be sure that they have the mandate of the people before the morturies begin to fill. I see only sense in this action.

    Now, let's fast-forward to today: The radical Muslims are a PROBLEM to the USA. They attacked our soil and killed nearly 3,000 innocent civilians on our own soil.

    Granted, but why did they do this. The Muslims became a problem in the US. Did American foreign policies have anything to do with what happended? Henry Kissinger, a man whom I greatly admire and the closest thing that the US ever had to a real Foreign Secretary imho, is reported in the 'Time' Magazine as saying that Clinton misread all the signposts that led to the downing of the WTC and actually may even have provoked the situation. I tend to agree with him.

    We try to "negotiate" with them or "deal" with them, but we will lose. They hate us and their fanatical beliefs teach them to hate us.

    No Fark. Again there is a presumption in your assessment that this situation cannot be controlled and dealt with in political terms. I fundamentally question that notion. I do not believe that the US have ever made any serious attempts at negotiating with its Muslim enemies. In this present conflict for example, the agendas have already been written. Education and compromise have throughout history tamed some wild horses. The US will lose the war against terrorism if it continues to believe that arms can control ideologies. They can certainly punish but never control.

    Therefore, we educate ourselves about their HATE of us and compromise with them, and the PROBLEM of them killing US on OUR OWN SOIL where they don't belong in the first place just MIGHT go away?

    Yes, you must understand your enemies thinking if you wish to defeat them. The US clearly DO NOT understand the thinking of the Arab mind and while it might suit the jingoists to kill anything in a turban, it will not take care of this problem. Kill Saddam Hussein, blow apart Iraq and tomorrow’s generation will be reaping the consequences, just like the French when they chose to ‘blow apart’ the Algerians. Much of the immigration problem that France has today are an inheritance from this flawed policy.

    Rubbish, my friend. Rubbish.

    Maybe so, but its my rubbish…..lol

    I would like to see Sadaam Insane and all of his ilk blown out of this galaxy. We couldn't "educate" ourselves and "negotiate" with Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, Mohammar Khadafi or any other homicidal maniac. They cannot reason. They can only murder anyone who stands in their way, innocent or not. Kill them, and let the whiners about that benefit and not even know that they are benefiting.

    These dictators rose in revolutions that devoured their own nations. Surrounding nations stood by impotently while they grew wings. At the root of their 'success' was always other nations ignorance, often deliberately chosen. It is this ignorance that I am addressing in my posts.

    BTY, you might feel more like myself if your own citizens in your own Country were murdered in the same numbers as my fellow citizens were murdered in my own Country.

    Fark, are American lives more important than Arab ones? The foundations of todays radical Muslim problems are built on the bodies of tens of thousands murderd in times past by my country, your country, the French, the Jews etc. etc - that is where the problems began. Just for the record I will restate my main point: an ideological war cannot be defeated with war. It must be tackled with education, negotation and compromise. The tools of the trade of any decent foreign diplomats.

    It must also be acknowledged that even the US admit that they have found no direct connections between Iraq and the WTC as yet. Like yourself and Wasasister I have little time for any dictators or homocidal maniacs and would gladly see them annihilated but opening Pandoras Box before all other options have been allowed for is foolhardy and is sowing seeds of tomorrows pain. It seems to me that is what the French, Germans etc. are trying to say. They have lost their thousands also.

    Kindest to you Fark - HS

  • wasasister
    The governments have to be replaced with American democracy.

    What? Since when do Americans get to decide which form of government to impose on other people?

    So, how about the Chinese, Koreans, Spaniards, Croats...etal?

    This statement is so offensive I honestly can't believe you said it out loud.

  • czarofmischief
    What? Since when do Americans get to decide which form of government to impose on other people?

    So, how about the Chinese, Koreans, Spaniards, Croats...etal?

    This statement is so offensive I honestly can't believe you said it out loud.

    Ooh. I love shocking those in the grip of PC speech. Here's the deal, leftie:

    American style democracy is the best form of government. It guarantees basic human rights, allows for free expression, taps into the massive power of the common man, and gives everyone a much better chance at wealth and prosperity than any other form of government ever tried before or since.

    Don't think so? Well, we imposed democracy on Germany and Japan, and look how they have prospered since World War 2.

    I don't care if I offend anyone who is trying to please everybody - so suck it up, or will you try to censor me?

    The Croats? They've tried to impose their values on everyone before - it was called the Austro-Hungarian empire. So did the Spaniards. guess what? everyone is trying to adapt to free market reforms and democratic expression! It simply works better than anything else out there.

    The root of the radical Islamic problem is poverty. Democracy can cure that. Freedom from religious oppression can cure simmering dissent. Break them, then build them. A democratic Iraq will become an island of civilization amidst the prehistoric cultures that surround it.

    Freedom is best. If you're jealous of American power, get over it.


  • ozziepost
    American style democracy is the best form of government.

    Tell that to the Brits!

  • Erich

    >American style democracy is the best form of government...<

    This statement implicates that the "american way of life" is the best of all possibilities; therefore it is the way to achieve paradise on earth; and finally it implicates (as a result of math logic): everyone who is denying this fact is a terrorist. He has to be eliminated and liquidated;-(


  • back2dafront

    "You're either for America or against it!!"

    yadda yadda b.s.

    As they say in the valley, "what-EVER"

    Let America run the world and then everything will be okay. Leave it up to us and the global murder per capita rate will increase 10 fold, all senior citizens will be broke and sick and we'll all be dead in 50 years due to natural disasters that could be prevented if we were smart enough to focus on environmental issues now.

    I'm exaggerating a bit, but you get the point. Democracy definitely has it's advantages and it is a proven effective way to govern people, but that doesn't automatically put America in this super-duper holier-than-thou category either.

    Appreciate it's good things, realize the things that need to be addressed. This country could be a lot better than it currently is. The American people need to realize this and take it upon themselves to make some changes for the better happen. How to do this remains to be proven - our votes have been proven not to be a deciding factor in a presidential election and protests don't mean a damn thing, so we'll have to resort to another means, whatever that may be.

  • Erich

    I am so sorry about this war, because I like US-people. 5 years ago I made a trip to NewYork. Saw WTBTS and Patterson etc. Saw WTC-buildings before got destroyed. In my opinion Osama bin Laden has now got what he`d want. The damage is now world-wide the 1000 times bigger than 11-09. The situation in the world may completely get out of control if the Irak-war do not end within two weeks. Then the "Great Tribulation" will begin. Thanks to your leaders..;-( They are same as stupid as Nazis in Germany and Communists in former eastern countries. They are going to try to get through big walls with their heads. I repeat once more: I am very sorry about US-people.


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