The Holy Spirit

by Acer21 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Acer21

    If the Holy Spirit is an "active force", how can it be grieved (Ephesians 4:30)?

    In other words, according to the JW's, one can make Jehovah's "force" sorrowful?

    This is an example of how the JW leaders have perverted the gospel in translation, and have put the JW's in a position in which they must perform intellectual gymnastics in order to maintain their false position.

  • Jofi_Wofo


    And if the holy spirit is a person, how can it be poured out (Acts 10:45) and how could it have been INSIDE Stephen (Acts 7:55)?

    Answer? Sometimes the Bible personifies objects (psalm 66:4) and abstract concepts (proverbs 8:1) and sometimes it objectifies people (psalm 16:8, Matthew 16:18). What's symbolic? What's literal? Sometimes the text gives us clues, but sometimes it doesn't and we just have to make our own best guesses.

    We should be careful not to use a single proof text to try to make a scriptural point (you know, like those JWs like to do?), because context, literary style, challenges of translation and issues of personal interpretation will always cloud our abilities to fully grasp any Biblical concept. Oh, and may we not forget that all of that assumes to begin with that the Bible is actually a cohesive book with no conceptual contradictions and not just an anthology of loosely related myths, poems and historical fiction.

    In other words, for much of what the Bible teaches, there is no correct or incorrect interpretation and it's entirely unproductive to say that someone who disagrees with your conclusion is perverting or deliberately deceiving.

    There are plenty of problems with the organization, practices and teachings of JWs that make an actual real-world difference in people's lives. We can always disagree and debate doctrinal interpretation, but it is HIGHLY unproductive to say that every disagreement is further proof of malice on their part.That is, in fact, what had originally caused me to not take detractors and apostates seriously. If they call us liars and deceivers for not accepting the Trinity, how can I take them seriously when they claim we're liars and decievers for teaching that Jesus began reigning in 1914 (an actual verifiably wrong teaching that actually has a tremendously negative impact on the lives of millions).

    Even on the Trinity front, there is more damning evidence of deception, such as not always adding Jehovah in New Testament quotations of Old Testament scriptures that have the tetragrammaton. I STILL think the Bible writers never intended to teach the divinity of Jesus, but that's an insanely dishonest thing to do.

  • eyeuse2badub

    The Holy Spirit? Is it even a thing or is it some imaginary, invisible, indestructible, unreliable force like the expression out of the Star Wars movies,

    "May the force be with you"

    If it's so powerful and it's from god, why the hell isn't it doing something good today, right now to help humans. After all, humans are god's greatest creation right?

    just saying!

  • EverApostate

    The Bible should have explained about Gravity rather than this fictious Holy spirit.

  • caves

    After I got dfed the second time and was trying to get reinstated, I asked an elder what a sin against the holy spirit was. All he did was look at me and went "um hum" attitude and all, LIKE I HAD ASKED BECAUSE I COMMITTED THE SIN. I asked him why he said that in a dismissive tone . He brushed me off. Needles to say I was infuriated.

    "context- I still thought it was the truth & 1 1/2 years trying to get reinstated '- I went to another elder and said that if I was ever treated that way in the kh again there would be 'a hell of a lot more than a sin against the holy spirit to worry about in that particular kh.' I also said that 'if I had, wouldn't jehovah be capable of keeping me away from the kh?' He fortunately was one of the few mellow elders(didn't matter at that point) and apologized but said the other elder must have misunderstood me. I said "No he didn't . I spoke in plain english, but If he EVER does that again I you will need the cops because I will break his neck."

    Damn, I had forgotten about that. It was quite the shit show after the meeting and man did the cong leave fast. I was livid. They did threaten to call the cops as I was not backing down. I had a few aces 'if thats what one would call them' in my pocket , the cover up of my molestation and I sure used it loudly! I did used my uncle being a cop to my advantage. Also, I never told his (the pedo) daughter about the molestation and she went to the same hall. I said something along the lines of 'I'm dfed what do I have to lose? Its not like you guys haven't been dragging your ass to reinstate me. 1 1/2 years , me writing letters, there every meeting.' A more highlighted probably more studied wt that most.

    The last I heard of that elder he was imprisoned for guess what... pedophilia. He got out of jail and died not long after. Good riddance. But with a lovely jw funeral about how wonderful he was.

    I cant believe I forgot about that. & interesting trigger for me.

    As I wrote that I could feel my blood start to boil. I think I blocked that on purpose. It was fucking traumatizing.

    Anyway, holy spirit is nothing but breathing oxygen to me.

    Apparently god doesn't know how to use it or what its for since god does NOTHING for a situation that was created by god. Which is horse shit because god is a figment of the imagination.

  • Still Totally ADD
    Still Totally ADD

    Caves so sorry for what you went through. Been there done that but at the age of 53 all the shit I went through finally came to my mind with all the emotions. That's when the healing began for me. My hope is this will help you to heal from what you went through. It's bad enough we survived the cult but also had to survive sexual abuse. To one survivor to another take care. When it comes to holy spirit I feel the same way you do. Still Totally ADD

  • caves

    Still Totally ADD- Thank you. I'm actually owning my story, because its just a story now and doesn't define me.Like I used to think. This past year I have healed in so many ways. I used to get triggered daily about jws but now it happens maybe every couple of months for a few minutes. That's been the current pattern. It will continue.

    Sometimes I comment on something or dive head first into an emotion so I can walk though it instead of running from it. That comment I made was the walking though it. I had a flash of the past and walked though it via typing. It doesn't have a grip on me. And if it does get like that where I feel that I'm gripped in fear or caught in a trigger I try to remember that I'm safe now, and also importantly I have a voice and am cutting in my teeth quite nicely.

    Lots of growth, more to go. Much better than when I came on here scared a couple of years ago.

  • oppostate

    I'm a Christian and feel the help of the Holy Spirit as I try to live my life as a disciple of Jesus Christ. To me te Holy Spirit is a gentle force that serves as my guide in daily life. It helps me try to rise above my imperfections. I feel it also brings to mind Godly principles and teachings that allow me to better cope with life's anxieties and trials.

  • LongHairGal


    The identity of who or what the holy spirit is was never answered to my satisfaction when I was in the JW religion.

  • Jofi_Wofo

    Wow, caves. Thank you for sharing your experience. You've done a tremendous job recovering from such awful circumstances.

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