My Story.(now that I'm no longer a "newbie")

by Gamaliel 17 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Gamaliel
    Gamaliel

    Friends,

    I was responding to another thread about whether the elders were happy to get rid of me, and my answer got so long, I felt like I was hijaaking the thread. So I decided to tell a little more of my story here as a way of introducing myself, and of course to tell folks here how happy I am to make your acquaintances on the forum. (And to thank, Simon, too, of course.) No need to respond to the thread since I've already been talking to many of you for several months now.

    When I knew I was leaving, the elders were not happy at all, except for one who seemed to get wilder by the week with his own internal rage over my case.

    They never got to a real Judicial Committee with me, but in informal "EBT"s when the other elders figured out we were probably going to leave, there were tears in the eyes of a couple elders, and they were against any ruse this "nemesis" elder wanted to use. But he was the only "Bethel Elder" and thus carried a lot of weight.

    I had just left Bethel to get married and had moved from my previous NYC congregation (of several years) to my wife's congregation and I wanted a few more months, at least, of "good standing" or else the Bethel rumor mill would have quickly shredded the reputation of my Bethel Service where I knew about 300 people pretty well. I wanted to keep in touch with a few, and I still do. The elder in question began raising such a stink that he was assigning me talks at every meeting, even sending people to hear my public talks in other congregations. This was in 1981/2, a peak time for articles about 1914 and talks about the Organization and FDS. He even had the CO make a surprise visit to our congregation to hear me give a service meeting part about "The Organization." (Remember elders: when you think you have an apostate on your hands, make sure you put him up in front of the congregation to teach. Makes sense, right?)

    He, this elder, was getting very desparate and wild -- pathetic and funny at the same time. The problem he seemed to have with me, is that I had learned to say what they wanted to hear without truly lying and, of course, they finally start asking stupid questions that they aren't even supposed to believe themselves. Like "DO YOU BELIEVE THE GOVERNING BODY IS THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE???" (and they asked it in all caps, too ) To which I could answer with annoying, good-natured humility , "Well I would hope that they are at least included, but I think technically, the Watchtower says that the slave is the entire remnant, and that the GB is only a part of that slave. Am I right? If I missed something new, I'm sorry."

    Anyway, they never did disfellowship me, but it made little difference after I wrote them a nice letter DA'ing myself. After I wrote it, Brother R u s k and a few others were very angry at me because they DIDN'T want the letter and they even let me know that they were holding my letter in case I came to my senses. That message was given to me again a couple years later. So I can't say for sure if I'm a JW or not. They made an announcement in the congregation, which should be all that matters, but the WTS was, in effect, defying the authority of the congregations.

    Brother S c h r o e d e r asked my brother at Bethel how I was doing a few years ago, and my brother said. Well you know [Gamaliel], he's sometimes an idealist instead of a realist. Albert just looked at him funny, but he, my brother, had already survived his own witch hunt and Bethel was tiring of all the hard work that Inquisitions carry with them.

    I think I know the problem that made them not know what to do with me. My wedding kind of summed it up: the ceremony with a half-hour talk was handled by a brother from the conservative side of the Wriiting Dept and the main wedding talk was handled by a brother from the "liberal" (aka later dismissed as near-apostate) side of the Writing Dept. For people that don't know, the WTS couldn't handle the Writing Dept scandal and tried to move a few people out quietly so that it would never be known that up to half would have been considered apostate, if certain questions had been put to them directly. Since I was known to have had very good friends on both sides, it would only have directed more attention at the potential scandal they wished to avoid -- and conservative members might have felt tainted too.

    Well, we've lived happily ever after for 20 years now -- soon I'll have half my life back -- and I'm happy to read about more people coming out with similar experiences.

    Gamaliel

  • acsot
    acsot

    Thanks for sharing your story. It's certainly an eye-opener to see how "God's organization" really works on the inside. So.... the Writing Dept. isn't "inspired" of God, they don't all speak in harmony?

    I remember hearing about the "scandals" back in the 80s - rampant apostasy! Of course, back then I was as uptight a dub as you could get. Also depressed, exhausted and feeling guilty about everything. Well, I'm a firm believer in "life begins after 40". Gotta make up for lost time!

    Am looking forward to your future posts, especially as far as the inside goings-on at Bethel.

  • Xander
    Xander

    Question:

    This writing dept scandal you write of....details?

    I'm curious - haven't really chatted with anyone so close to Bethel...well, after they LEFT, anyway....

  • Gamaliel
    Gamaliel

    Xander,

    This writing dept scandal you write of....details?

    I'm afraid I don't have a lot of juicy gossip, and I hope it's obvious I wasn't actually in the Writing Department. (Although my ego asks me to admit that I was assigned some research tasks. Yet I'm ashamed now of what I was trying to prove.) Most anything of any importance that I know was revealed a million times better than what I could have done by Ray Franz. What I am finally getting over is a sense that I have to keep covering for people out of respect for personal friendships.

    Even now, 20-25 years later, I don't want to make it easy for certain people to see what I've said about them out of context, so I add spaces to names like R u s k (hardliner), A u l i c i n o (half&half), etc. (People can't quickly search on their names this way.) Also, I've seen how the most sincere people were hurt badly by being "pushed out" even if they weren't disfellowshipped. Jim N a p o l i t a n o, for example, had plans for how he would take care of himself financially, but the Wt retirement plan for him was "a boot". (not df'd, though) Others, like Dunlap, are dead, and suffered worse, due to the situation the WTS placed them in. One of my best friends, right after I left, was DF'd for apostasy in his 90's and died with almost none of the personal support he had enjoyed just a couple years prior.

    So, it makes me think about how I might inadvertently cause hurt to people by telling names -- and yet those are the primary details that make these cases real and verifiable. Where would Swingle go if someone were to reveal certain things he has said in the past. (I think he's safe by now.) There are people who have managed to get out, even from Writing, without creating a scene, but they would not appreciate it if other people were to try to reveal things they didn't want to reveal themselves.

    Sometimes, it seems to be out of some misplaced pride that I want to tell certain things I know that others wouldn't. Sometimes, I think that it's only right to tell if it will help someone else see the WTS more clearly. I used to ignore these forums for many years, but now I realize there is a chance I could even get a few with Society-hardened hearts (like my own parents) to soften up. But then, I start thinking how selfish it is to risk hurting others just to get, my own parents, for example, to understand.

    I sometimes feel I don't even have a right to mess with the mental sense of "well-being" the Society gives to my own parents. Would I go up to a person on their deathbed and tell them everything they ever worked for was worthless.

    So I become an irrational rationer of words. And I've already gone beyond my daily ration.

    Gamaliel

  • gold_morning
    gold_morning

    Gamaliel,

    I am interested in the years you were at Bethel. I believe my brother was there during that time. I would like to personally ask you if you knew him.... or perhaps still do.

    If you would e-mail me perhaps I could ask you. [email protected]

    thanks so much, gold morning

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    Hi Gamaliel!

    I can just see the look on Fred R's face. Maybe he was just ticked that they stuck him with doing the "minor" prophets in Gilead class and "new boy" school? What a great assignment for a hard-liner.

    Many who leave have a sense of guilt for what they've "done," even years later. I really don't think I'm de-sensitized, but... I feel no guilt. I did what I did because I was thoroughly convinced at the time that it was the right thing to do. And many, probably most, JWs today feel the same way. Revealing personal info or maliciously tearing into their life is not the way to help them get out of the org. It took some of us many years to get out (or be forced out), taking the long road. I feel that showing the same patience toward current JWs is only fair play.

    A couple things I'd like to ask you: As I struggle to clarify my feelings, I now distinguish quite clearly between individual JWs (whom I care for) and the WTS (which I have come to hate). Did you develop a similar hatred for the WTS? If not, why not? If so, do you still have that hatred, or did it pass? None of my business, of course...I ask only because of my current state of mind and heart.

    Craig

  • Brummie
    Brummie

    Thanks for sharing those posts Gamaliel, great story and appreciated getting an insight into "inside"

    Brummie

  • teejay
    teejay

    Gamaliel,

    It's men like the one you show yourself to be here that attracted me to The Truthâ„¢ oh so many years ago. Thanks for what you've said.

  • Gamaliel
    Gamaliel

    Thanks for the kind responses.

    ascot: lol, no it was far from harmony in the years I was there ('76-'80). I was an uptight dub too for over 10 years. It unraveled in 1978, but I thought a person could still do more to help it from the inside.

    Xander: by "scandal" I meant that there were two major factions. It's too simplistic, but there seemed to be a set of less productive boring conservatives, and then a vibrant, intelligent group of folks who, even though less than 50% of the Writing personnel, were highly productive, excited about discovering new spiritual ideas and breaking out of the old Freddy Franz mold. A couple of them may have seemed quiet and shy, but they were true powerhouses in their ability to find and express worthwhile ideas from the Bible. The "Great Apostasy" of 1980 was inevitable due to the critical mass of jealousy the small(ey)*-minded had for those who were able to think for themselves. (*as in Gene S-m-a-l-l-e-y-minded)

    gold_morning: I left you an email with info on it.

    onacruse: Fred R, actually had a very beautiful, fatherly attitude with many people. He was a hard-liner only when he had to be or maybe because he had to be. I spent many hours in his office. He was a paradox of philia, philosophy, but was forensically pharasaical with the old-time JW religion. I notice you've mentioned the hate issue elsewhere. With me I don't think I feel hate for either, maybe I should, and maybe my ability to "feel" proper emotions was an early casualty of my WTS life.

    brummie, teejay: thanks.

    Gamaliel

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    Thanks for sharing your story. It sounds difficult to have walked such a tight line whilst dealing with the mad dog elder. I'm very pleased you found someone to share your life with. My wife and I will be married 20 years this June, so I feel a sympatico with you.

    Take care,

    Chris

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