Treat Disfellowshipped as "Men of the Nations and Tax Collectors"

by BluesBrother 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    We are more than familiar with the WTS rules that say the d/f'd ones , even close relatives outside the home are to be shunned completely "Not even saying a greeting" except in very exceptional circumstances.

    There is ,however, a line of thought that reasons on Jesus' words at Matthew 18 ,regarding personal disputes,and their application of it to being disfellowshipped.

    Matthew 18:15-17

    15 “Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. 17 If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.

    They explain it this way:

    Wt 99 10/15 p22

    20 In a relatively few cases, however, the sinner reflects that same attitude. If so, Jesus’ direction is clear: “Let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.” The Lord did not recommend being inhumane or desirous of any hurt. There is, though, no ambiguity about the apostle Paul’s direction to exclude unrepentant sinners from the congregation. (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) Even this may eventually result in the goal of gaining the sinner.

    P19

    6 Jesus’ disciples hearing those words knew that their countrymen would not socialize with Gentiles. (John 4:9; 18:28; Acts 10:28) And they definitely avoided tax collectors, men who were born Jewish but who turned into misusers of the people. So strictly speaking, the reference at Matthew 18:15-17 was to serious sins, not personal offenses or hurts that you can simply forgive and forget
    OK then we understand that the Jews held such people with disdain.. but who's example should we copy? Unfaithful, rule bound First Century Jews or Jesus himself? What was last Summer's Convention all about? "Imitate Jesus!"We know that Jesus treated such ones differently.
    "The Greatest Man " chap 27

    Apparently, Matthew has invited these tax collectors to his home so that they can listen to Jesus and receive spiritual healing. So Jesus associates with them to help them attain a healthy relationship with God. Jesus does not despise such ones, as do the self-righteous Pharisees. Rather, moved with compassion he, in effect, serves as a spiritual physician to them.

    Wt 88 5/15 p 12-13

    10 Jesus spent most of his earthly life with Jewish people. But one day he was approached by a Phoenician woman, a Gentile, who begged him to cure her daughter. In response Jesus said: “I was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Yet, the woman pleaded: ................ Impressed with the woman’s faith, Jesus healed her daughter immediately.—Matthew 15:22-28.
    Compare also the Bible's account of Jesus' encounter with the Samaritan woman at the well.

    All in all I believe that it casts doubt on the WTS's interpretation of the d'f arrangement . The rules they make are their own interpretation of the other scriptures. It is perfectly possible to exclude a "wrongdoer" from the congregation and organized social activities - he would "no longer be one of JW's" without imposing the cruel shunning that hurts both him and his family.Food for thought, anyway


  • Simon
    Simon

    You don't get to ignore Tax Collectors. You have to answer to them. Maybe that should be the message.

    Disfellowshipping obviously goes against the christian gospel even if you believe that bible nonsense.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    Do Witnesses talk to and preach to "men of the nations & tax collectors"?

    Jesus said to treat unrepentant ones the same way!

    What's difficult about understanding that?

  • Actigall Ur
    Actigall Ur
    @Blues- This topic is VERY dear to me because I shunned my own sister for 5 years. I don't want to get into this again but if I were to believe in the bible again, there is no way I would believe that "disfellowshipping" is scriptural, let alone, CHRISTIAN as you have proven. But disfellowshipping is a useful tool this cult uses to keep members in line. I shunned my sister because I was taught to believe it was the right thing to do and out of fear of being shunned myself. This cult needs to be destroyed. NOW.
  • Marvin Shilmer
    Marvin Shilmer
    I can't tell you how many times over the years I've recounted the biblical statement attributed to Jesus admonishing to treat a person as a tax collector and then pointing out that Jesus did not shun tax collectors and we know this because the bible records Jesus having dinner with tax collectors. The average JWs stands there while the idea flies straight over their head. JWs who know me just roll their eyes and change the subject, precisely because they get it.
  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Yup, preaching to Tax Collectors etc was hardly "cutting spiritual ties" with them as JW's are told to do.

    The JW religion sure is a Pick and Mix job, pick out bits that suit them from the Bible, and ignore the whole of the rest of it.

    Jesus railed against those who did not live by the Spirit of the law, which was (is?) Love.

  • BluesBrother
    BluesBrother

    I like your thoughts Phizzy, "pick n mix" indeed !...

    "Jesus railed against those who did not live by the Spirit of the law, which was (is?) Love."
  • poopie
    poopie
    You are 100 percent corect i send that post to all the members if gb post hast certified letter.
  • Clambake
    Clambake

    I have an Uncle is a pastor at a Baptist church in a large Urban center and he does some outreach work. There are some rules to working with people with drug problems, Homeless people and sex trade workers etc etc.

    For example

    Don’t go in their homes

    Don’t invite them in your home

    Don’t turn a blind eye to criminal activity in the shelter.

    Etc etc

    I often though of Jesus story about treating people like Gentiles and tax collectors yet hanging out with them something like that. You can help, even associate with people and not be buddy buddy with them as long as they know where you stand.

    JW policy is pure blackmail.

  • Beth Sarim
    Beth Sarim
    They have to ratchet-down their control of the rank and file about df'd ones or apostates. They have to because of that ''mentally diseased'' bit now they have since that article about 4 years ago. They have to almost ''demonize'' those ones.

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