What I Remember From The Past...

titch

Folks: Regarding all the recent changes about dis-fellowshipping and time for re-instatement. (And, even speaking to persons who are dis-fellowshpped.) Back in 1972, a new book was released at the Summer District Convention, that replaced the yellow-colored "Lamp": book. (I think that book was referred to as the "Organization" book.) And, in that book it was stated that after a person was dis-fellowshipped, he or she could ask the BOE to be re-instated after a 6-month period. That is, IF they were repentant of what they had been dis-fellowshpped for and truly wanted to return to the org. So, a 6-month period was established, for applying for re-instatement.

Fast forward to around June or July of 1974. A Watchtower study article was published regarding not being so "hard-lined" about speaking to a person who had been dis-fellowshipped, and was trying to make a return to the organization. I think that it gave an example of, if you happened to see a d-fed person who had some car problems, while they were driving to the local K.H., you shouldn't hesitate to stop and help them. That would be the proper thing to do. Now, the thought was that if you were NOT and Elder, you shouldn't engage the person in any "spiritual fraternization" with them, but leave that up to Elders/Overseers. Other than that, light conversation was permitted with them, for the purpose of encouraging them to return to the organization.

Now, fast forward to about 1980 or 1981. A Watchtower article was published, that kind of reversed the policy/thought of having a conversation with a dis-fellowshipped person. Apparently, there were many who had "gone overboard" with the "conversation thing." And, they needed to be reminded about the purpose of disfellowshipping a person.

So, those are my remembrances of things past. How about you Folks? Do you remember those things? Let me know. Best Regards to all, and for those in the Northern Hemisphere, Happy Spring. For those in the Southern Hemisphere, Happy Autumn. ----- Titch.

careful

Yes, Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry, a drab olive green colour.

The '74 change was due to Ray Franz, the lightening up, more humane view. It's in CoC.

Then after he resigned and was hunted down and DFed for "apostasy", the hardliners under Ted Jaracz, as you put it, "reversed the policy/thought" of being humane.

Now the current GB, under pressure from Caesar, have jettisoned Jaracz and his ways, especially after dumping Tony Morris, evidently the final holdout from the old school.

GrreatTeacher

I also remember that disassociated ones weren't treated the same as the disfellowshipped.

If someone just didn't want to be a JW, then fine. You could still talk to them. Just no spiritual discussion.

Now it's the exact opposite.

Disassociated people are vermin because they are apostates and apostasy is a sin worse than any other.

Whereas before, there was more of a don't ask, don't tell policy. Somebody disassociated themselves, you didn't ask why, and you didn't assume they were apostates.

The water was further muddied when the GB created the notion that someone could disassociate themselves by their actions, like taking a blood transfusion or joining the military.

This was a sneaky move that served to hide their draconian policies. We won't bother to create a judicial committee and disfellowship you, you are just persona non grata. And we can gaslight you and the world by saying you did it to yourself. Audacious!

Plausible deniability to the secular authorities; we don't shun people who believe differently!

In my opinion progress would be going back to disassociating simply meaning no spiritual association. It would actually get the secular authorities off their back because the most egregious thing is that there is no way to leave the religion without harm.

To me all these so-called liberalizing DF changes are actually going backward. More nosy elders in more business more often.

It's a head scratcher.

Earnest

titch : And, in that book it was stated that after a person was dis-fellowshipped, he or she could ask the BOE to be re-instated after a 6-month period.... So, a 6-month period was established, for applying for re-instatement.

In the book "Your Word is a Lamp to my Foot", 1967, it says (p.181)

No plea for reinstatement will be considered for at least a year after disfellowshipping, and in some cases even more.

In Organization for Kingdom Preaching and Disciple Making, 1972, it says (p.176)

So, it may be several months, a year or even years before a disfellowshipped person gives convincing evidence of repentance.

In Organized to Do Jehovah's Will, 2019, it says (p.153)

The elders are careful to allow sufficient time - many months, a year, or even longer, depending on the circumstances - for the person to prove that his repentance is genuine.

Ron.W.

Thank you Earnest.

I always feel that it it it wasn't for legal accountability the wt would be just as hardline or maybe even more than those past examples in their treatment of DF ones.

mikronboy

Yes. I remember them retracting their retraction and the extra hurt it caused many who had just re-established some limited contact with their families.

ScenicViewer

Speaking to DF'd people in some minor way has been something the Organization has gone back and forth on a few times.

Titch quoted a 1974 Watchtower ...

... if you happened to see a d-fed person who had some car problems, while they were driving to the local K.H., you shouldn't hesitate to stop and help them.

I remember a Circuit Overseer asking that exact question in one of his talks, but his answer was different. What did he say? 'Someone else will be along to help that person.'

I don't remember the year but it was well after 1974, so they had hardened again on talking to or helping a DF'd person - it could have been related to the issues with Ray Franz.

DesirousOfChange

Plausible deniability to the secular authorities; we don't shun people who believe differently!

That is exactly what all these changes are about. WT needs to LOOK BETTER to the secular authorities. They have "gotten their tit in a wringer" with various governments around the world and are trying to appear "normal" instead of so draconian and malicious towards those who leave.

Hopefully these changes will lead to softening by the hardliners, but hopefully the secular authorities will not be fooled if there are not REAL changes.

jehovaxx

Yes I remember talking to older ones and they say there was a time when the DF rules lightened up but people went to far resume family relationships. Then they said there is no need for them to get reinstated so they made the rules really strict again.

what will happen with this new flip flop this time?

DesirousOfChange

what will happen with this new flip flop this time?

We have one older couple (he's an elder) in our former Cong that took the hardline against their DF daughter. Yet, they wanted to see their grandchildren and could not understand why their daughter took the hardline against them >> "We are a package deal. You can't shun me and still see my children." They still feel they must be faithful to Jehovah first.

Another couple (he was an elder) whose daughter was DF took less of a hardline. The mother absolutely refused to shun her daughter (and subsequent grandchildren) in any way. She didn't do it on the discreet and cared not if seen in public with her daughter. The father originally tiptoed around the issue trying to maintain his elder position. When other elders brought him up on the matter, he chose the "necessary family business" defense eventually said FU to being an elder.

I expect the same thing to happen with the new "flip flop" in the rules. There will be a big difference on how individual JW's handle it AND there will be a big difference on how each BOE handles it. Some will be liberal and allow a "stretching" of the rules. Others will be hardline.

Dealings with DF who are not family members will be subject to even greater scrutiny. I do not see where much of anything has changed on that.

What I Remember From The Past...

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