Does anyone TRULY die?

by anti-absolutism 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • anti-absolutism
    anti-absolutism

    I have been reading the book, "The Power of Positive Thinking" by Norman Vincent Peale. He is/was a Christian minister, but his thoughts on God are somewhat different than what I thought a minister's thoughts would be.

    In the second last chapter he expresses an interesting viewpoint. I will quote him, from page 189.

    "For my part, when I gained the unshakable belief that there is no death, that all life is indivisible, that the here and hereafter are one, that time and eternity are inseparable, that this is one unobstructed universe, then I found the most satisfying and convincing philosophy of my entire life."

    What does anyone here think about that? How many agree or disagree on that philosophy?

    Brad

  • Navigator
    Navigator

    I have held that same belief for many years. It is a prevalent teaching in the New Thought community(Unity, Religious Science, Divine Science, & Christian Science). The belief is that God is all there is. That He/She is expressing infinitely through each and every one of us. God Himself is incomplete without me (and without you). The so called separation from God is merely an illusion and exists only in our human minds. Our flesh bodies are merely walls which we have constructed to shut out the awareness of God's presence and pretend that we are "doing our own thing". Like the Prodigal Son, we will all return home someday. The remembrance of the mistakes we have made will no doubt be painful. But we will all get the ring on our finger and the cloak around our shoulders and a welcome home feast, however unworthy we might feel. That story tells us everything we need to know about God and our relationship to Him.

  • anti-absolutism
    anti-absolutism

    Thanks for your expression Navigator. Having that belief, being that we are a part of God and He is a part of us certainly does lead to a more UNIFIED world and Universe.

    On the other side of the coin, individualism certainly seems to lend itself to more hatred and war.

    Do you think if I called up Bush and got Saddam on a three-way call with us, I could convince them that they are from the same entity and would stop fighting? What a strange awareness level we are at as humans, don't you think?

    Brad

  • Francois
    Francois

    One of my favorite topics here. Thanks for bringing it up Anti. I don't believe in death; not from the perspective of the person who is "dying."

    Ever sleep so hard and fast that you open your eyes in the morning thinking, "I couldn't have just slept eight hours. I just got into bed and shut my eyes a second ago." Most people have done that a time or two. It's very startling, but true.

    I think death is like that. We will close our eyes for the last time here on this material plane and blink them open again in the next life as of the same instant. We cannot then have any awareness of the passage of time since the "dead" are conscious of nothing at all. And this would be the perfect fulfilment of The Master's comment that those who believed him would never "see death." What I've described certainly closely comports well with that idea in that what we see is just more life.

    I think it's kind of exciting, not that I'm ready to go today. But one day in the relative not too distant future I will be ready to go. I am very interested, after all, in enjoying the matchless company of my grandfather once again. It's been way too long already; forty years this March.

    I hope my humble viewpoint has engaged your imagination and given you (more) hope.

    francois

  • qwerty
    qwerty

    Hi Anti-

    Glad you mention this, I was going to start a thread with a topic on near death or out of body experiences.

    A couple of weeks ago on British TV there was a program all about this subject (I hope any UK posters who saw this will comment), it was quite balanced, and it looked at both sides of the argument.

    I was so moved by the stories of those who claimed to have "seen the light" that I had to tape it for my JW wife. After watching it, even she had to agree that the WT doctrine could be wrong.

    One specialist said that all those who have had this experience, afterwards it as changed their lives for the good. They become less worried about materialistic things and concentrate on family life, love, and compassion and become more humanitarian. They all become spiritually focused in life. One man gave up it lucrative job in the city , apologised to those he had wrong, asked their forgiveness and now lives in a modest home. His career as has done an about turn; he works as a councillor for people with serious problems.

    Most of the examples mentioned seeing themselves looking down on their bodies (all pronounced clinically dead). Even though they could not see or hear what was going on around them, they could relate to the hospital staff later what was done and said, were instrument was kept etc; to the astonishment of the staff that were in the operating theatre at the time.

    They mentioned being pulled to a bright light, which felt like going over a hill in a car at high speed. When they got into the light, they all mentioned feeling intense love all around them; one person said that this was the place of all knowledge. There were relatives waiting for them, one lady asked if the light they were standing in was God! The answer was that the light was the breath of God. She said here uncle told her, it was not her time and she had to go back. This lady did not want to go back, but her uncle argued the point and took her back to the operating theatre. She said he pushed her back and her body jumped on the table, she was back!

    The one experience that really got me was of a Lady who had been blind from birth, had never seen the world around her, and could not explain what light was even, before her experience that is. She describe similar to the above, as she came out of her body she could see! She said she could see her self, what was going on around her (again to the amassment of the hospital staff), her body void of life etc. She went up through the roof, could describe cars, trees, birds, you name it. To cut the story short she when "to the light", but was brought back again.

    I cannot remember the figures but out of a study of hundreds of people who had been clinically dead/near death and brought back that, the ones conducting the study said that a big percentage of them had had out of body experiences!

    It made me realise and gave me a sense of peace and contentment to know that beyond this life, life I believe does go on. After coming out of the Borganisation, it is comforting to know, God is BIGGER than we were lead to believe as Witnesses.

    Wow my posts are getting longer for a change!

    Thoughts anyone?

    Qwerty.

  • Navigator
    Navigator

    Querty

    Good post! Thanks for sharing. It is one of my favorite topics.

    Anti

    I'm afraid Mr. Bush and Saddam couldn't be brought around since both have very powerful ego selves. Our ego (that part of us that believes we are separate from God) is very fearful of our waking up to the truth of who and what we are.

    Francois

    I don't believe in death either and would be interested in your "take" on psychics such as John Edwards, John Anderson, and others who take the position that the "dead" are very conscious of what is going on here. There are times when I have felt the presence of my father and my grandmother. I have always suspected that Jesus' purpose in going through the crucifixtion and resurrection was to demonstrate that death is an illusion.

  • Francois
    Francois

    Navigator, I'd sooner believe that The Master died as an example as opposed to being some sort of "sacrifice" for my "sins." I will never believe this.

    I don't get into psychics, as I feel I'm psychic enough right on my own. I also feel that anyone who is interested in developing that power certainly has the potential within themselves already to do so.

    francois

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    [quote]Our ego (that part of us that believes we are separate from God) [/quote]

    I think that is the goofiest definition of ego ever hatched. We'll have to hash this out over beer.

  • Sara Annie
    Sara Annie

    "Illusions" by Richard Bach

    Read it. Sums up the majority of the comments in this thread in a simple story that is a thoroughly enjoyable read. One of the best gifts I've ever received, it helped me to verbalize what it was I felt about the idea of God, religion, and the relationship of this life to the "next". Pick it up, you'll be glad you did.

  • Double Edge
    Double Edge
    Does anyone TRULY die?

    I do, every Monday thru Friday from 9am to 6pm. Actually it starts an hour earlier when I get on the freeways. By the time 6pm arrives, all the life force has been suck out of me - I get resurrected every weekend.

    The other 'death', it's just a portal... no we never truly die.

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