That's it! The Jesus stories are most reasonably explained as myth. History makes this obvious.

by Island Man 74 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Saintbertholdt
    There's supposed to be a Simpsons / Futurama crossover in the works...

    Hi Vidiot,

    Asked if there would be more crossovers between Futurama and The Simpsons, Groening said "it was possible." "What's amazing about Futurama is the fans are still watching the show on Netflix. You know how everything gets rebooted? Futurama will get rebooted someday. We'll see."

    Over the past couple of weeks I've watched every episode from season 1 through season 7 (excluding the movies). I finished the last episode today.

  • Vidiot

    My kids love that show; they've marathonned it on Netflix more than once.

    I've recently let them watch The Simpsons, too (much to my wife's dismay).

  • Phizzy

    I like Carrier's presentation, and some of his argument, but lean much more toward what Caleb says above.

    It is plain that the Gospels and other writings concerning Jesus of Nazareth come under the heading of Myth, Legend and Fable. But that does not mean he did not exist, any more than Robin Hood and King Arthur need be viewed as never existing simply because the writings about them are patently fiction. They just may have existed.

    The main point is, nobody can claim anything with any authority about Jesus of Nazareth, about who he was, what he said or what he did.

    He is simply Legend.

  • opusdei1972

    Indeed, many of the stories of Jesus in the Gospels are myths. For instance, his birth of a virgin, the resurrection of Lazarus, his walking on the waters, and many of the dialogues (in the Fourth Gospel) are not historical. However, Jesus had to exist, as Caleb pointed out. But he was a Jew, a leader of a sect, so I strongly doubt (as many scholars do) that he sent his disciples to preach and baptise people of all nations in the name of the Father and the Son, and the holy spirit.

    In conclusion, I believe that only a ten percent of what we read in the Gospels is historical.

  • OverlappingGeneralizations

    In the back of my mind, I always wondered:

    I have worked with several schizophrenics, and some believe they are the son of god, or are being talked to by god directly. What if Jesus was just a convincing schizophrenic?

  • opusdei1972


    OverlappingGeneralizations 29 minutes ago

    In the back of my mind, I always wondered:

    I have worked with several schizophrenics, and some believe they are the son of god, or are being talked to by god directly. What if Jesus was just a convincing schizophrenic?

    Of course, if he said things like "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me", he was a schizophrenic. But most probably be he did not say such a thing, and those words were written by people who did not know him.

  • Crazyguy
    One easy way to know that the Jesus stories are myths introduced centuries after his supposed life is the story of his death. In this story he dies and not only does the sun stop shining but people are actually resurrected and run a round Jerusalem. No I repeat No writer or historian at the time writes about this monumental event, not one. This is a major event the first time in history of a mass resurrection and no mention of it anywhere.
  • CalebInFloroda

    I have several friends with family members who suffer from mental illness and one relative of my own who also has their own particular battles.

    Schizophrenia is not about hearing voices as often believed, it's about delusions. There is also significant motor function and an inability to care for one self. While some might think they hear an invisible presence speaking to them, most that I know of and what I've learned do not fit the popular myths about schizophrenia often portrayed in films and television.

    Jesus of Nazareth would have never been able to be considered a rabbi or prophet in Jewish society if he were mentally ill. Jews generally ushered these people away from general society

  • CalebInFloroda

    My previous comment was cut short by a technique error.

    Mental illness was generally equated with demonic influence in first century society, and people were often abandoned to die by their families.

    Jewish Responsa, as most of you know, is very complex, covering daily life Halacha application, instruction on proper exegetical methods, even propriety regarding rhetoric, governing centuries of learning and covering everything from mishnaic philosophy to the Talmud. Within this great body of work is a body of Responsa itself regarding Jesus.

    While some of it suggests demonic influence, Jesus is pictured as a charlatan at best but not a schizophrenic. While I understand that some find it easier to dismiss a crazy man or a completely fabricated myth, but it is intellectually dishonest to make a historical Jesus of Nazareth impossible. An non-historical figure would not have inspired such complex Jewish rhetoric designed to defend Judaism's stand.

    It takes no courage to dismiss something that is non-existent, nor does it require you to look deeper into a subject that demands we leave our comfort zone. But the truth of matters often demands we leave our happy place, study further than what we want, and even be courageous far beyond what appeals to our liking.

    Reality is disturbing, and we are no longer in Watchtower world where things are merely black or white. This means we might have to accept more about the reality of Jesus than we like or even feel we can. But if we find we cannot reject Jesus unless he be a myth or crazy man, then perhaps we have to ask ourselves why a real Jesus from Nazareth is such a threat to our conclusions. A historical Jesus should never have to make denying him impossible.

  • OnTheWayOut

    Absolutely nobody today believes that Osiris, Adonis, Romulus, Zalmoxis, or Inanna existed.

    Here's what I get out of this: Most of the even slightly educated people of the days of these other gods were pretty sure that the gods were not real, but were part of sacred myths or allegories that they believed were used to reveal cosmic truths.

    Between the angels of the old testament and the gods of the land, Jesus was invented as a new, better combination of Moses and Ezekiel. Edited to add: ....and Jesus was a permanent blood sacrifice to remove the need for the Jewish temple and regular sacrifices.

    Sometime after Christianity was established, there were too many differing ideas about him and too many writings about him and the church did their best to limit these. They put Jesus in an actual historical time and place and invented their own pedigrees and papers of learning so that others could not keep trying to change who Jesus was and what he did and said. So Jesus became real.

    But mainly, Jews became Christians because it was easier to sell a religion where males did not have to cut a portion of their penis and where bacon was allowed. It always comes back to bacon.

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