Diminished Morality as Proof???

by confuzcious 14 Replies latest jw experiences

  • confuzcious

    Today a couple of elders came by and told me that "diminished morality" is proof that those who leave the truth have lost Jehovah's favor.

    That is, when they were in the truth, they were all chaste, etc. But now that they are out of the truth that they don't hold the same high standards of morality.

    Your thoughts???

  • SixofNine

    People who get their "morality" out of the bible, or any book for that matter, are immoral.

    Those same elders have undoubtably hurt many a person, persons who may not have hurt anyone else. I got your morality right here.

  • Buster

    Lets see now, I'm no saint. But I'm not sure how I would get lower than these actual cases of still-active JWs:

    - The elder that decided that he loved his best-friend's wife better than his own. That caused two split marriages, affecting five chiildren directly. I've never done anything that bad.

    - The MS that was raping his teenage daughter after mummy went to bed. His wife defended him - didn't even think he should have been disfellowshipped - he was repentant you know.

    - The brother that molested my friend's daughter.

    - The elders that asked my friend to keep it within the congregation - yup, don't go to the police.

    - My one-time friend that agreed, but protested agressively ... by moving to another cogregation

    - Okay, I did do some naughty stuff - but the worst of it was while I was still attending. And I swear, that CO's wife came on to me - she paid for the room - I didn't have that kind of money at 19. That one never found its way to a JC, I wonder why ... hmmmm. Now that I think of it, (and not too proudly, by the way - it was a long time ago) any married women I ... was naughty with ... were elder's or MS' wives - while I was still trying to be a good little dubbie.

    Its a little cleaner here on the outside.

  • jgnat

    Well, first of all they would have to prove that everybody that leaves the society becomes less moral. How could they possibly know that? Congregation members don't even speak to them.

    Also, they should define moral. Is a man be judged immoral only by WTS standards; that is, he smokes, he does not go to meetings? Or can a man be judged by biblical standards, working from the foundation outwards? The foundation is; love the Lord your God with all your heart, and your neigbour as yourself. So, if a parent in the society never smoked but rejected their own children, then leaves the society and takes up smoking and hugging their wayward children, did they become more or less moral?

    It is so odd that Jehovah's relationship with Witnesses is so tenuous. If a man slips, he falls off the Jehovah wagon. It is as if the society is telling the people there is velcro on only one side of the relationship. What if Jehovah is the hook, and we are the loop, and when we stick to Him, He sticks to us? What if the relationship is two sided? (Deteronomy 3:8). We can see the model in human relationships. In a marriage either partner may go through a difficult time and when they do, the other carries the load for a while. The marriage endures, and both are strengthened as a result.(Eccl 4:9-10)

  • Elsewhere

    Keep in mind... the "morality" they are referring to is "morality" as defined by them.

    This is just more "holier than thou" circular reasoning... "We made up some rules of morality, therefore we are superior to anyone who does not follow them"

  • Xena

    According to MY moral code they are the immoral ones...

    It is against MY moral code to "shun" anyone...

    It is against MY moral code to harbor child molestors and abusers

    It is against MY moral code to damn anyone who doesn't agree with me

    It is against MY moral code to let my loved ones die over a "principal"

    It is against MY moral code to allow a group of men in Brooklyn, New York decide what MY morals are...

  • Maverick

    Xena you put it right on the head. These Elders should take a good look at their own house. Ms wife swapping, Elders writting bad checks and short changing witness employees. Elders wives who gossip and stab each other in the back. Elders kids "get out of jail free" double standard. Butt kissing servant want-a-bes. Molesters, and drunks running meetings and taking the lead. What a mess! Maverick

  • zev
    That is, when they were in the truth, they were all chaste, etc. But now that they are out of the truth that they don't hold the same high standards of morality.

    Your thoughts???


    those elder have their heads up their arse in the sand.

  • Marcos

    Well, I've personally seen almost all of the bad behaviors mentioned above in the "Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses". Both when I was in and since I have been out.

    I believe there are some who are witnesses who lead moral lives. But by no means all of them.

    Since I have been out, I still don't do what I didn't do then. I have, over the years, examined my beliefs about God and about what constitutes moral behavior. I have a standard that I adhere to. However, I am constantly learning about being a "good" person and still discarding a lot of their blind and bigoted bs.

    Not being judgemental is a noble concept. But I still am. Moreover, I have yet to meet anyone who is not, given any particular issue. A lot of people I know who claim not to be judgemental are soooo judgemental when it comes to disagreeing with me or others who don't fit their particular liberal or conservative ideals.

    It is refreshing to meet a lot of people here who vehemently disagree on issues and yet maintain a "live and let live" attitude. In my 50+ years on the earth I have learned that you absolutely cannot force your beliefs on anyone (not even on your kids). They may agree with you to your face but not in their hearts. Better to listen to them, present your case, and let it go. If what you say is true, it will become evident.


  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    When I hear the sexual puritan judges, I think of the story of Onan - people generally think that the Lord slew him because he fornicated - sex without wanting to have kids.

    But I think that the Lord slew him because he didn't want to look after and pay for children that weren't his own - children not of his pride.

    What's off-putting to you - people bonking or greed ?


    I don't remember Jesus chastising people who had sex or even prostitutes - I do remember the sort of people he did chastise though - it generally had something to do with being an overbearing scriptual baffoon, oh, and not giving your worldly goods to other people.

    Spiritually speaking, what is a prostitute - someone who has sex with people for a living - or someone who is willing to turn tricks and sell their morality for the sake of their spiritual life.

    Edited by - a paduan on 15 February 2003 22:20:29

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