by Francois 19 Replies latest jw friends

  • Francois

    Obviously I'm back from my general initiation and orientation into grandpappyhood.

    Although things are kinda hazy due to all the excitement, I do remember charges and speculations of some very dubious nature attributed to me prior to my taking off for the other side of the state (Georgia). Most of these charges were made by semi-, or ill-informed people who were mere bystanders to the central misunderstanding which - I'm afraid - was between you and I.

    I certainly don't like having the pall of the haze of misunderstanding continuing to be associated with me after being on this board for so long and that in general a very positive presence, and I'd like to respond to whatever dangling strings there are, and I feel sure there are some. For instance, I feel pretty certain you're laboring under some misapprehensions of who and what I am, and of my viewpoint(s) and outlook(s).

    In short, I would like to resolve what there is left. I could go back and read all the posts in a couple of threads, or you could just tell me - even privately if you like. I opened my mail for just that purpose. I think that's a lot more efficient than reading the opinions of some other folks who just piled on cause the opportunity presented itself. It's you and your opinion of my social fragrance I'm concerned with at the moment.

    Will you come out and play?


  • gumby

    I don't know what the hell your talking about Frankie baby but I know I luvs ya


  • StinkyPantz

    Well, Francois. . . I am tempted but I think I've learned my lesson about "debating" or what not. I suppose if others still have questions for you then they should feel free to ask them, but I think I have the gist of your viewpoint(s). Plus, I'm extremely sensitive about certain issues and when I see negative things (whether true or not) about Blacks, women, Americans, interracial couples, or any other group that I happen to be in, it really pisses me off and I say what's on my mind w/o thinking. My views may be justified or maybe not and I can accept that. I can even say that some things I said were not well thought out or even wrong. Could you accept that maybe some of the things you said were rude, uncouth, or wrong? If so, then all (well, at least most) is forgive, and I will try really hard not to dislike you.

    Edited by - StinkyPantz on 13 February 2003 20:38:7

  • StinkyPantz


    Oh and by all means elaborate on whatever you think you should. Don't let me hold you back.

    Edited by - StinkyPantz on 13 February 2003 20:51:38

  • Francois


    You were really kidding about that "don't hold back" stuff, weren't you? I mean you were being facetious weren't you? You already know I don't hold back, right? Right?

    Please. Be tempted. Let's have it all out. Every bit. Every teeeeny tiiiiiny speck of it. Out, out damned spot. And like that . I'm serious. I really do hope, want, desire, etc. to get this all resolved so we can all get back to being who we thought we were before we became what we think we are now! 100% of it is all I'm asking for.

    And I have a reeeeeally sneaky feeling that you don't know what my viewpoints are. Not really. If so, you could never propose that "all (well, at least most) is forgiven." What is that part that is not thus eligible for your mercies? Really, I do want to know, honest.

    Consider: My post was for the most part put up because of what to me is its intrinsic humor. And most of it came from George Carlin who, btw, denies he said about half of it. Who knows? But I was into it about 99% because I thought it was funny.

    Also: You are a black minority female married to a white majority male; I am a white majority male married to a brown minority female, so the question is begged: Why do you think you personally own the race issue all unto your little ol' self? Our situations are virtually mirror images of each other. So I don't get it, why do you get to be all pissed off about some imagined race-based slur and I'm not just as qualified to reject your sole ownership of the race issue and consider that attitude to be some kind of modified, reticulated, condensed, all-natural race issue of its own?

    Are you, as part of a George Jefferson "zebra couple" any more qualified to resent being stared at in restaurants as my wife and I are as another "zebra couple"? What gives you that right to assume the entire race issue to yourself? Doesn't my racially-mixed marriage count in your book? And if not, why not? I don't know where you live, but I'd be willing to bet it's a few degrees more northerly in latitude than Savannah, GA, where "the north" begins just past Bay Street.

    And if you have to "try really hard not to dislike" me, what kind of acceptance is that? I can just hear The Master now, "by this others will know that you are my disciples, that you try really hard not to dislike each other." I gotta admit it, Stinky, I'm whelmed; I'm really whelmed.

    Um, and frankly, I'd have to go back and see what I said to whom, but I don't think I was uncouth to youm. I think I was uncoth to a butinsky who was busy blowing on our teeny tiny little spark and throwing gas on the embers. I'm sorry to have insulted youm, er, you. However, your response here makes me wonder about whether you might have carved out for yourself the entire set of issues regarding people of color, men, Americans, interracial couples, or any other group that I happen to be in. But the fact that our membership in these various groups overlaps all over the place really makes for a complicated set of issues, don't it? Is it really legitimate to argue that you're blacker than my wife so the racial issue belongs to you lock, stock, and barrel? How would you feel about it if you said something nasty about professional writers and I went into orbit and started foaming at the mouth and spitting up all over myself and wondering if I could really try hard enough not to dislike you because of what you said about writers. What if your subjects and verbs didn't agree (gasp), what then. Do I get to dislike you because of the cold blooded murder of the English tongue?

    Interesting little situation you've got us into this time, Ollie.

    You're on.


    Edited by - francois on 13 February 2003 21:59:13

  • roybatty
    Could you accept that maybe some of the things you said were rude, uncouth, or wrong? If so, then all (well, at least most) is forgive, and I will try really hard not to dislike you

    I enjoy debating individuals with differnt points of view, esp. those with opinions that are exactly opposite of mine. However, F's response to your post was down right shitty. Attacking a person instead of a person's opinion or views is playing dirty. And call me old fashioned or a sexist but talking to a woman (unprovoked) that way is just wrong.

    If he hasn't done so already, he owes you an apology.

  • animal

    Na..... Stinky readily admitted that she has little or no control over her emotions with those subject. All F is doing is pushing some buttons that she placed out there. He is an artist at that, which is a compliment.

    Anyone not in control of thier actions asks for what they get.



  • Xena

    Lets see if I got this straight (I didn't wade thru the entire threads...I am a "readers digest" kinda person sometimes, so sue me)...Frank asks Stinky to engage in a civil discussion about race.....she agrees...he verbally trashes her on a personal level...she responses with a WTF????? (a lot nicer than most on here would probably be if addressed in the manner that she was, kudos to you Stinky!) a civil response and tries to walk away from it.....Frank calls her back and says basically come on lets try again...She responses with a nice uummm thanks but no thanks and gets this condecending drivel back from Frank.

    uuummm bottom are not gentleman Frank (that is as close to a personal insult as I can get without getting censored, cause if I said what I really thought of you I would probably be banned from the board)

    Keep walking Stinky he isn't worth your time

  • foreword

    All I can that from the very first post I read of F is that, he's a frustrated man because he was not asked to be part of the GB...because he thinks he should've been.

    and I will not discuss that.....

    Sorry F, my gut intuition

  • Francois

    I figured this would happen. Everyone's got an opinion. And not only that, but everyone's got an opinion of MY MOTIVATIONS, and an up-to-date analysis of my response. Um everyone but Stinky, with whom I am attempting to reconstruct a decent relationship via humor, metaphor, irony, and every other technique I know how.

    The only person here so far who is even close is Animal, who is also apparently the only person who realizes he doesn't have a dog in this fight. I have news for you others who think you know what motivates don't have a dog in this fight either. And not only that, it ain't a fight.

    Foreword, I can't see anything anywhere in almost 4,000 posts that would justify you making that kind of insult. In fact, that kind of insult makes you about as bad as you claim I am. You assert that I want to be on the GB, but I see it's you that's doing all the judging. If that's as good as your gut instinct serves you, perhaps you'd do better with a Ouija board. Jerk.

    Xena, I don't know where you're coming from either, not claiming to do what you do not hesitate to do: assign motivation to others. And if you think my response is condescending drivel, then you have no idea what condescending means. Drivel, on the other hand, is something you obviously know lots about. Tell me something. How can someone who has escaped from the WT act more like an elder than an elder, and attempt to pick apart each and every sentence and word and pass judgement on each? You come across exactly like a flinty-assed old elder. They say that you become just like that which you have grown to despise. Well, welcome brother Xena, elderette, knows all, judges all, blabs all. You're just tooooo righteous for me. And I've noticed you piling on before now in other threads where your nose wasn't needed or appreciated either. Which begs the question: where you born an annoying know-it-all twit, or do you have to practice at it?

    RoyB, if you don't answer a person according to the manner in which they have responded to you, they won't understand a thing you're saying. That concept got you all turned inside out; little tough for you is it? I don't remember ever offering any insults to you. What are you on about? Trying to get in good with the ladies is it?

    Frankly and finally, I don't get you folks. You might not understand my attempt to iron out what I feel is a misunderstanding with S.P., but that gives none of you the right pile on. If I was half as bad as you are attempting to make me out, I wouldn't be trying to impress upon S.P. the depth or number of our similiarities now would I? I would have just let whatever misunderstanding my innocent original post created with S.P. ride and ignored the fact that she was hurt by it, and attempt to do something about it. In short, instead of offering your assistance in resolving a situation based largely on misunderstanding, you do all you can to insure furthering the misunderstanding. You remind me of the people looking up at the woman on the tenth floor ledge, yelling "jump, jump," and as such you prove yourselves full of male bovine fecal material, that means you're execreable Xena and others. You should take a cue from Animal who sees far more than you and does so in a much quicker glance. But then I have never seen him attempt to egg on a fight, either. Those that do can piss off, I think is the technical term.

    S.P. I was hoping to resolve this unpleasant situation with a little humor, some metaphor, irony and a couple of hard questions that I'd still like an answer to, mainly as to why you feel you own this issue. You're not in any different situation with your marriage or anything else than am I. So what's the deal? Why is it all yours? I would appreciate dealing with you at our personal addresses if you please. There's always a few in each crowd who are so far into self-righteousness they can't identify it in themselves. I've tried to see it from the point of view of foreski, um foreword, Xena, RoyB, but for the life of me I just can't get my head that far up my ass. Please. Let's get together at our private addresses and resolve ourselves like the adults I feel we can be with out all the "help" we get here.

    Remember the story of the old man, his grandson, and the donkey? If the old man got on the donkey, passersby felt it was terrible he made his grandson walk. If the little boy got on, it was terrible the grandfather had to walk, if neither they were stupid, if both they were cruel. Lesson being you can't please anyone but yourself so why bother. I have never seen any indication that these folks can run their own lives, I'll be damned if they'll run mine.


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