by patio34 69 Replies latest jw friends

  • JanH
    there is no question from our human ....logical...perpspective makes no sense.........

    Right, and since we are humans, we should stick to that perspective. There is no need to even believe there exists any other perspectives, and much less what those perspectives may be. Thus, if you believe something illogical, the chance of this being a valid perspective in any sense of the word is zilch.

    - Jan
    "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate." - Occam

  • emyrose

    Hi guys,
    Excuse me for answering, I'm a believer.
    In my logic class in college the prof.
    once showed us a truth table that showed
    that it is better or more logical to
    believe in God, because the fact that
    you can't prove he does not exist leaves us with
    the real possibility that he does exist.
    But I see your point about relying on ourselves.
    And yet we would go crazy if we were all alone.
    Where would we be w/o friends and loved ones?

    Two weeks ago I was on the subway and had the worst
    panic attack ever, I thought I was going to choke
    and die right there. I prayed to God to send me someone
    to talk to immediately, the next thing I know a friend
    from school walks by, who happens to be one of the sweetest
    persons I know. My panic attack left as we spoke to each other.

    I've had similar experiences througout my life, and this is
    why I am compelled to believe in God.
    No offense intended, Emyrose

  • hippikon

    Emyrose: Don’t read this if you are the sensitive type I suspect.

    Sorry Emyrose but my logic table says if God doesn’t communicate (in any meaningful way) or intervene (in any meaningful way) he may as well not exist.

    I wonder why God helped you with your panic attack but doesn’t help starving children in Africa. Does God love you more? Or are those starving Africans evil bastards who don’t deserve any help? Just wondering.

    "But it does move"

  • Scorpion


    You said: I wonder why God helped you with your panic attack but doesn't help starving children in Africa. Does God love you more? Or are those starving Africans evil bastards who don't deserve help? Just wondering.

    You obviously do not read the paper or look at the news. There are many funds set up for helping those that are in the predicament of those in Africa. Are you being a good humanitarian and doing what you can to help those without food, or are you just sitting on the sideline and bitching about the problem and blaming God?

  • emyrose

    Hi Hippikon,
    Oh no, I'm not sensitive about analyzing anything.
    I love to learn and have enjoyed reading this thread.
    I think everyone here has imp. and valid points.
    I just don't agree w/ all of them. As far as the truth
    table I mentioned, I'm afraid I don't have it handy; I
    only remember that absolute truth is mostly beyond
    human understanding. Thus, no one can really proof
    concretely that God does not exist.
    I often think about those starving kids in Africa,
    and think about how fortunate I am. But I do not think that
    God loves me more because I have food. But just because famine and
    other tradegies occur does not mean that God is not caring.
    Maybe all those poor victims go to heaven after dying. My intention
    is only to have faith that God exists, not force you to believe w/ me.

  • hippikon

    Scorpion: I’m certainly not sitting on my arse relying on a mythical god to fix things. By referring to charitable “funds” you minimise the problem and are passing the buck. Charitable organisations by there own admission are inadequate. (Unlike yourself I suspect. I am an atheist and have direct links to third world countries and until now have never blown my trumpet about it. I don’t rely on “funds” but am directly involved)

    Emyrose: My (rather blunt) point is. Why would God get involved with small things and not seem to care about larger issues. While you feel God helped you there are others he hasn’t helped. For instance I know of a JW woman who was beaten, raped tied up then burnt alive in her car. Don’t tell me she didn’t pray or that God didn’t listen because her prayers weren’t acceptable. But then maybe she didn’t read her day text that morning and had to be punished

  • emyrose

    I think he has gotten involved w/ big and small issues. Think about
    the many ways life on earth could be worse. Just because he helped me w/ my problem and has not helped that poor JW lady does not mean that he does not care. Some of us suffer more
    and differently than others. Okay, but that doesn't mean he cares
    less about some persons. We don't know why he allows manys things.
    However, here we are today enjoying life, even w/ all that pain that
    comes along with it.

  • hippikon

    Don't you see that your making it up as you go along. One premis leads to another untill you have a pile of bullshit 6 feet high. Why does God need people to justify him. There is definatly something wrong with reasoning that gets more and more convoluted as it develops.

    Most often the simplest answer is the corect one.

  • emyrose

    No Hippikon, I'm not making it up as I go along.
    Although I see your point about how too many things
    left unanswered can lead to serious doubts about GOD.
    Yet, isn't that where faith comes in? When I was a JW
    I used stay up reading,researching and pondering such questions.
    What I found is that even though we know little about
    God's actions and plans, we know enough to know he is there.

  • mommy

    I love your name, it reminds me of my sister You are new to the forum and I want to welcome you. I have read this exchange between you and Bro. Hippikon, and I can honestly say I see both of your view points. But the struggle I am having is that it is inside my own head.
    When I first came on this forum monthsago, I had all my ducks in a row so to speak. I had a belief in God, that was built on faith. This belief in God gave me the ability to hope. Not only hope but actually fortell the future, to a certain degree. It helped me explain the unexplainable, by leaving it in His hands. I gave me a peace in my heart, and courage to face the day. I pray to God everyday, as my chldren do as well.

    But something amazing happened I was introduced to things that others learned and others beliefs. I had my eyes opened to the many forms of worship there are out there in this world. I looked to the logical points some made and I was unable to defend. I then went to God and prayed, about these things and really took to heart all the evidence provided.

    Now I am stuck in limbo, still having a need to have God in my life and on the other side actually proving them(non believers) wrong. I do so love a challenge But as you mentioned, "Where is your faith" I like that point. Faith without works is dead correct? Well if you are doing the works, YOU are actually doing it, with the backdrop of God.
    Well this is how I see myself now. I no longer claim to believe the God of the bible, though I believe the writings are wonderful and use them. I feel that all of us has a piece of God in us, and we can each have our own version of "God" that we wish. I am in no way discouraging you to believe in God of the bible. Just look around and see others views and research they have done. Then take what you wish of it and throw the rest away. You don't have to have a view that 6 million others have. You are an individual look inside of yourself and see what makes you who you are and ask yourself, Did God make you who you are did the experiences you have had and continue to have?

    Just think of this following example as you reach your decision, or come join me in limbo. If you are explaining the reason for God to take away your panic attack, you must also explain why God lets innocent people die. They are contradictory, and because he is God is not a good enough answer.
    I hope I made some sense. I am rushing to get the kids off to school this morning. If not, email me I would be happy to chat.

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