by patio34 69 Replies latest jw friends

  • Esmeralda

    Hiya Kent!

    So, you're letting your real life interfere with your internet time, are you? Good for you.
    I'll have to try that some time LOL.

    Still hoping to get your experience up on my website btw, I haven't forgotten, just been
    too swamped to get to it yet.

    Glad you're still around and doing well. Hope you enjoyed your holiday!


  • Undecided

    Hi All,

    I've been attending a little church group with my wife and the pastor has a special time where people request prayer. It's interesting to watch the request and see what the outcome of all the prayer is.
    So far many have died who were prayed for, some have improved then got worse, some have got better as a natural pattern of nature. If all the prayers were directed to a tree the same results would have been attained. When the prayed for get worse they say God has a purpose for it, in other words He can't lose no matter the outcome it is always God's will. My question is why pray if God's will is going to be done anyway and we can't change it?

    There may be a God out there somewhere, but right now he must be on vacation or something. I can't complain for myself as I have had a wonderful life but am getting a little anxious as I know it can't continue forever. I don't attribute it to God but just as Soloman says "time and chance".


    Ken P.

  • Introspection

    Jan, I wanted to say I appreciated your words below. However, I'd like to ask all a question which is perhaps off topic, but I think is very relevant, and that is do you really think that information processing on the cognitive level is the "final frontier"? Because I have to admit, in talking to those who are just leaving or those who seem stuck in the old way of thinking I am often hesitant about laying all the cards on the table. I think you're right in that there's probably some dishonesty (likely in the form of denial) and/or "cowardice", (certainly we can appreciate the fear they have) but I just don't see that as being the most effective means to help people open up, certainly not for everyone. My hope is that we can develop some kind of sensitivity to the emotional issues as well as the intellectual ones, because if nothing else, I think for many the cognitive processing, while integral to the overall process, will be secondary.

    I think it is somewhat intellectually dishonest, or at least a form of cowardice, to reject the WTS beliefs because you find evidence lacking, and yet not dare to expose Christianity, the Bible and other belief systems to the same scrutiny.
  • Introspection

    Hi Ken,

    The thought I had in reading your message is that life is to be lived, not to be held on to tightly. It seems there's a certain freedom that comes with accepting our mortality, regarding each breath as your last. At age 28 I am fully prepared to die. This may sound morbid, but I do feel it is very liberating. It's about making each moment count.


  • stephenw20

    Jan , I enjoyed your comments as well as Essies about the seeming unfairness of the plane scenario.......

    there is no question from our human ....logical...perpspective makes no sense.........

    neither does the earth hangin where it does.........or a guy building a boat for 120 years, when it never rained..........or Isrealites packed against the Red Sea...........or Sacrificing your only begotten son..........or even telling Adam he can do anything but eat an apple

    none of it makes a lick of sense..........
    and to us never will

    we are human.......

    he is not

    the evildoer prayed (as i mentioned on another thread about prayer)...........did it help him.........? I cant say for certain........but it seemed that was the premise of his seemed to all onlookers..the party was over.......

    I dont know all that there is or may be after the last breath of the physical experience ...but many here on this earth do see it as the final expression.......

    there is room for all those ideas........I'll keep mine... and enjoy the last breath like I did the first one, and then move the next challenge......


  • Undecided

    Hi Mark,

    The only real fear I have of dying is leaving my children, I want to be here to be of whatever help I can to them. Also my wife needs what little financial help I give her also. I've resolved the idea that it is comming pretty soon since I'm 65 and counting.

    I have no concept of what is past this life, if anything. It seems man is just part of nature and we just go back to dust. It seems whatever spirit we have is just the brain waves as they descipher the input from our five senses. What causes our emotions or character seems to be the chemical content of our body and the life expierences we may have had. It would be really great if we do have some future source of life but I really doubt it, but I could be wrong as I can't prove what I can't see and observe.


    Ken P.

  • stephenw20

    Ken , I invite you to look into "anatomy of the spirit"
    by Caroline Myss. It may shed some light on the spirit within you.

    Check out her site.

  • digderidoo

    I used to think that prayer was a powerful tool.

    Many times i prayed for something to occur...and then coincidence? prayer was answered.

    What started me thinking was a work colleague of mine, who became a good friend.
    He was a seventh day adventist.....Basically, he had financial problems...he was talking about an evening when he had advertised a sythensiser in a local paper for about £1,000. He had no phone calls, so he and his wife decided to pray at about 10.30 p.m. ... then low and behold at around 10.45 someone phoned...he came at 11.30, paid cash for the synthesiser. His God had answered his prayer.
    I thought to myself, if that was me i would be saying how i had been blessed.
    But the point was, that here was a guy, with different beliefs to me who was also getting his 'prayers' answered.
    Okay, you can say it was Satan, but he would say the same about my prayers being answered.

    So what's it to be....Satan, Jehovah, Allah, Buddah, or may be self fulfilling prophecies....who knows?
    What i'm in agreemant with is the fact that if we pray for something to happen, it's a mor than 50/50 chance that it will.

  • waiting

    I used to believe in prayer, and God's interaction - however rarely it was felt in my life. But I was taught to believe that.

    Prayer can be a powerful tool for a person to sort through their thoughts, pain, anger, and to make them think of other persons' plight in life. But then, we can do this ourselves also - it's called talking to ourselves with a point to the conversation.

    In fact, during therapy, it's sometimes suggested that we talk to our inner person, inner child, whatever to provide security, love, etc., for that part of us. We're talking to ourselves as we would our own child. And it's quite effective and provides much security for ourselves.

    We can also talk to ourselves, our subconscious mind, particularily before retiring - asking it to think about a specific problem, or recall specific data/memories for us. And that form of request is quite effective also, particularily with practice. I've received as many answers to my problems as effectively with this type of request as when I prayed to God. Probably more so.

    But we're talking to ourselves each of these times, understanding ourselves.

    Diane Keaton believes in God, but then she believes little men live in her radio. Woody Allen

    Guess I'm going to have to continue thinking about all this stuff as the answers aren't nearly as easy and compact as the Truth Book made us believe. But at least I'm free to think, read, and comment now -at least on line.


  • Moridin

    My mother told me about two years ago to pray to God and he would show me that the witnesses had the "truth". Obviously He answered me by making me do two years worth of research and turning me into an atheist!

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