Amateur Counselors & Nice "Wicked&quot...

by patio34 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • stephenw20


    "What I am most concerned about is Patio's original statement about the elders. They are woefully unqualified to deal with significant mental problems, and as a result they cause great injury to others."

    Elders by defintion are there to shepard the flock by means of a system of belief that flies in the face of anyone who has capablity to deal with significant mental problems.

    The commitees are seated to JUDGE , not help. If you have a renegade against the bunch with an attempt to do the rigth thing based on his background or person to person skills,, he must have ignored his qualifications to become part of the WTBTS system.

    How does one who CONTROLS others lives , qualify in being an objective source of help to those with mental problems.

    Does not the office itself, state a lack of objectivity.

    I am interested in your comment here.


  • Flowerpetal

    That's OK Patio! Even though I am old enough to be a grandmother, I'm not one yet! Probably won't be one for a while...though I did have the priviledge of taking care of a quite precocious 3 yr. old girl for an afternoon not too long ago. It's fascinating how you can see parents ideas in kids.

  • Flowerpetal

    Stephen, I wonder if they WILL reply.

  • patio34


    FYI: that wasn't my original quote, but it's still okay. But I still don't think in most cases amateurs shouldn't be taking the place of professionals.

    With all the folks on antidepressants and serious depressions, I don't think amateurs should be CLAIMING to be able to counsel people with nothing more than a 2-4000 year old book.

    My 2 cents,

  • patio34


    Glad we're straightened out. I pictured you as a younger person, but you said you were old enough to be a grandmother. Fancy that.

    Well, I've got to yield the tv to Nick, my grandson, to watch 'Mulan.' Bye!


  • Introspection

    In reading Stephen's message I find myself thinking of how physicians can sometimes induce iatrogenic conditions, complications caused by the doctor's treatments. As we know, the organization itself can cause mental disease by virtue of what it stands for.

    I think one important point is the difference between the JW idea of counsel and the literal meaning of the word. All counsel means is to consult right? But really the counsel from the elders is supposed to be regarded as authoritative, it hardly carries the same meaning.

    Another thing is the approach that professional counselors take toward those in need of help. Frankly, they don't TELL YOU what to do! (in terms of running your life) Aside from the medical aspect of psychiatry, the individual seeking therapy often plays some kind of active role. I think it's important for the one seeking therapy to understand that they need to take steps to take back their life. Medication and therapy may help, but nobody can do it FOR you.

    As I've mentioned in another post, the thing that made me stop going to meetings was my attempt at sharing a bit of psychological counsel with an elder's wife. I saw an attitude of "learned helplessness" among the witnesses in terms of physical illness, the attitude being "Oh some things just won't be fixed until the new system!" The thing is, they weren't even trying or looking to see what can help. So I shared some research done by Martin(?) Seligman which involved experiments with dogs. Well, the elder was rather upset at being compared with dogs, asking me not to share such information in the future - completely missing the point.

    So I guess I just want to emphasize the individual's role in their own recovery. While I understand that depression can be severe, (been there myself, chemical crutch (not pharmaceuticals, but that's my choice) and not having energy for anything) you don't want to put your faith in others for recovery. It doesn't matter if they are qualified professionals, but the fact is we need to do our own part, as I'm sure any good professional will tell you.

  • stephenw20

    I apologize if my words were different from yours...I was respomding to Larc..


  • kilroy2

    I have said many times, when I saw "elders" [for lack of a better work] trying to counsel some one in need of help. that you are not getting help you are getting the opinion of a carpenter or body shop worker, They have not the training or brain to help, instead they try to use the fucked up interpretation of a worthless book or books, that whether or not who begot who makes any difference to any one.

    But I have seen it give the elder who is a nail bender by day, a woody at night to lord over some poor weak minded person.

    If I had my way we would string up every dubber to all available telephone poles.

  • confusedjw

    "Kilroy, may we see you in the back room? We'd like to talk to you about your attitude toward the brothers."

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