Requires thought

by Brummie 25 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Introspection

    A definition is just a definition, being spiritual does not involve a "way", no way that is distinguished from any other way that is.

    I'd have to say the same thing for views. If we are interested in the truth, and you already know you've got "a view", then why would you be concerned with that view? You just have to take a step back to that which knows it is only your personal view, that is closer to the truth.

    Actually, I don't think thought is required. You can have a person that's amicable and gets along with all people regardless of spiritual orientation or lack of it, and that is what I would call a spiritual person. (as long as they don't do it out of propriety and PC BS) In fact, learning of certain spiritual ideas will more likely mess that up. Even if we're talking about people who've never been involved in a group like the JWs, they could very well miss that which is real in their effort to become spiritual according to their beliefs, even if those beliefs are very reasonable, they're only beliefs.

  • Introspection
    Needless to say, the KH was spiritually devoid of any kind of energy of any sort. Even demons (if there are such things) would cringe at the entrance of a KH, for fear of drifting off into a comatose state of sleeping forever.

    Classic! lol

  • Brummie

    Just & Mouthy thanks for sharing, freedom to discover our own spirituality has been a great challange (and the headaches do subside), you know I'm with you on this.

    Something to do with making yourself into a comfortable home for God to dwell in IMHO

    Excellent point Eman, brings things back into the right context and makes spirituality more enjoyable!

    Roflao Mac!

    Bona Dea

    but religion to me has always been like a cage... and my creator, a very far away and distant persona, struggling just as desperately as me, to break free from the dry old book and religions to which he/she was confined. I had to let religion go. I still believe in a creator, but I had to free myself and him/her from that way of life, where all my predecessors had placed him and where tradition had placed me. I was raised Holiness. Speaking in tongues, dancing in the aisles, whooping and hollering...being "slain in the holy spirit" while screams and threats of hellfire and brimstone ring from the pulpit.

    I soon discovered the overwhelming sense of "holy spirit" or that energy I felt in those services, I could just as easily find at a concert or anytime my body was on a certain level and highly atuned to my surroundings. Then I met the witnesses. Not too much excitement going on there, but I felt as though I was learning something and being let in on some exclusive information that only a chosen few were fortunate enough to acquire. That I was acquiring knowledge that led to everlasting life... Needless to say, the KH was spiritually devoid of any kind of energy of any sort. Even demons (if there are such things) would cringe at the entrance of a KH, for fear of drifting off into a comatose state of sleeping forever. I left it all behind. I had to...

    With true spirituality, IMHO, there is an intense sense of freedom...not this boxed-up package, with pretty wrapping paper-type of spirituality that churches and religions attempt to sell you. I couldn't define spirituality. To me, it is a sensation; a connection I feel with my surroundings; an eyes-wide-open acceptance of life and keen awareness of my being. I am totally new to this. It has only been this time last year that I even allowed myself the freedom to doubt the things I had ever been taught. But I'm liking it more and more each day. I feel closer to god than I ever felt in any church or any Kingdom Hall....


    I couldnt decide which part was the most appropriate so I quoted it all! Twas all great! I can relate to all of it.

    being spiritual does not involve a "way",

    Very good point intro! When it becomes a way or a "system" of doe's and don'ts and this veiw and that view, its lost its meaning.

    Thanks you guys, this has been insightful


  • Carmel


    In man five outer powers exist, which are the agents of perception, that is to say, through these five powers man perceives material beings. These are sight, which perceives visible forms; hearing, which perceives audible sounds; smell, which perceives odors; taste, which perceives foods; and feeling, which is in all parts of the body, and perceives tangible things. These five powers perceive outward existences.

    Man has also spiritual powers: imagination, which conceives things; thought, which reflects upon realities; comprehension, which comprehends realities, memory, which retains whatever man imagines, thinks, and comprehends. The intermediary between the five outward powers and the inward powers, is the sense which they possess in common, that is to say, the sense which acts between the outer and inner powers, conveys to the inward powers 318 whatever the outer powers discern. It is termed the common faculty, because it communicates between the outward and inward powers, and thus is common to the outward and inward powers.

    For instance, sight is one of the outer powers; it sees and perceives this flower, and conveys this perception to the inner powerthe common facultywhich transmits this perception to the power of imagination, which in its turn conceives and forms this image and transmits it to the power of thought; the power of thought reflects, and having grasped the reality, conveys it to the power of comprehension; the comprehension, when it has comprehended it, delivers the image of the object perceived to the memory, and the memory keeps it in its repository.

    The outward powers are five: the power of sight, of hearing, of taste, of smell, and of feeling.

    The inner powers are also five: the common faculty, and the powers of imagination, thought, comprehension, and memory.

    On a collective level the essence of spirituality is Justice.

  • Carmel

    Whoops! that last post should have quotes around it. Not from me but Abdul'Baha


  • joannadandy
    Or are you totally unspiritual by your definition of what it means to be such?

    I think I am pretty unspiritual in that I no longer believe in spirit realms higher powers and here afters. If that is spirituality I am completely devoid of it. Much in the same way children learn to stop buying into fairytales. I have become much more concrete. I am quite the walking contradiction at present. I believe in romance. I believe in the inherent goodness in people. I believe we should "make the world a better place" but not because it would make God happy, but because it would be good for all of us to live a life full of love and concern, genuine heartfelt concern, for our fellow humans, becauase, I believe now, this is all we get. We have to be nice to each other and be good so that future generations can have it better than we did. Not so we can smile down on them from heaven, but because they deserve it as our future heirs.

    How do you veiw people who are very spiritual?

    Now I have mixed feelings about "spiritual" people. I have to respect those that have it. At times I feel sorry that their lives are confined to a narrow belief system, but quickly I realize everyone has a narrow belief system. We all have certain perceptions and "truths" we believe to be self-evident as time goes on. Just because I now disagree with other people's "truths" doesn't mean I can discredit them. I think it is far more difficult to be spiritual than it is to be like me i.e. an empty wart on the ass of humanity. HA! I am more accepting of people who have a pantheon of spiritual believes who make their spirituality individual and unique to their own perceptions, but I still have to respect people who can hold to a religious dogma hard and fast. I believe that often times takes large amounts of courage to put yourself on the line for the "spirituality" given to you by others. I don't agree with it, but I can respect the courage that takes. Though I know most people won't agree with me on this, I do believe that is a type of courage, even if I feel it to be misguided.

    But then again it all comes down to, who am I to judge?

  • Brumm

    Thanks Carmel, I've read it and I'll read over it again. Very good.

    Joannadandy, great reasoning,..coincidently, dont you think that spanking orangutangs is a spiritual experience? I'd have thought so.

    Thanks ((( )))


  • Ravyn

    religion confined my spirit. christianity especially confined it--I never felt a 'kinship' to christianity....I questioned the value of a system that required I be adopted into a foreign culture(to me) in order to fit in. and I totally reject the idea that there is some 'pedigree' needed to establish religious 'authority' over all other religions. christians are not the only ones who do that--I have seen it in modern wicca and alot of fundamentalisitic religions. I don't care if it is ten minutes old--if the myth works for you--then why be intellectually dishonest and claim some sort of assumed antiquity that gives it some kind of validation to those who like to drop names(and dates)?

    my spirituality is so much larger and fuller and richer than it could have ever been confined to that teeny tiny box labelled 'JW'. everything in my life reflects my spirituality now. I no longer have to live 'on this earth' but required to feel disconnected to it. I am so SO much more aware of my spirituality than I ever was before. But the potential was always there--just stifled.


  • Farkel

    : Or are you totally unspiritual by your definition of what it means to be such?

    No. I'm very spiritual by my own definition of that.

    : How do you veiw people who are very spiritual?

    How do you define "spiritual?" Since you haven't, there is no frame of reference, and everything else is just guessing what you are asking. If you don't define it, we can't discuss it, because everyone has a different view about it. In dub-land "spiritual" is selling Watchtower books and going to brainwashing sessions three times per week. In Zen "spiritual" is not worrying about being "spiritual." I could go on, but the point is made. Define it from your point of view, and then it might be worthy of discussion.


  • Brumm

    Hi Farkel, will get back to your question tonight, I think Bona Dea pretty much summed up a lot of my thoughts but I am at work and need to come off line now (its 7am here) almost home time (I work nights). Wish I had noticed your post earlier! Will have more time later.



    Got a minute to edit to add:

    Since you haven't, there is no frame of reference, and everything else is just guessing what you are asking If you don't define it, we can't discuss it, because everyone has a different view about it

    The original question was a free for all, for an individual to share their own interpretation or definition, because everyone has a different view it interest me to know their definitions. Not to compare theirs with mine, thats why there was no frame of reference. I'd be interested in yours.

    7:30am, home time

    Edited by - Brumm on 7 February 2003 2:33:57

Share this