HELP!!!

by truthseekers2 11 Replies latest jw friends

truthseekers2

PLEASE HELP!!! We are trying so hard to reply to questions that we are being presented with by family members. Hubby received a letter from his sister yesterday, replied to it, and received another email from her today. We just sent her info this evening addressing her claim that the Society encourages us to research and compare (yeah right) and that they claim to be a prophet while delivering false prophecies.
She keeps bringing up three scriptures and begging us to explain them to her:
Hebrews 10:25 "not forsake the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near."
Matthew 28:19,20 "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you."
Matthew 24:45 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slae whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?"
First of all, it's obvious we do not believe the Watchtower is the FDS after all we've learned! Secondly, why would we want to gather together with JW's now that we know what we know. And thirdly, who in their right mind would want to go bring in more "sheep" to this Organization?!
BUT, regardless, these scriptures have to have some explanation other than what we have been taught all our lives as JW's. Would any of you Christians on the board care to give us your interpretations now of these three scriptures...from a Christian, not JW, perspective??? Or at least point me us the direction of a board or persons that can?
TIA! (Just remembered one other scripture she quotes...the one about putting up with one another in love. Since we did not leave over the imperfections of others, I don't think this applies, but if anyone wants to address it as well, that would be fine.)
OH! And let me quote these:
Sister: The organization has never claimed to be perfect, ever. But they do claim to be gods source of spiritual food. Hubby: So why do they change their thinking constantly? Jehovah is a god of order never does his word change!!!!!!!! Sister: They claim it because Jehovah says it right in the bible!!
Sister: I don't expect answers to these questions, I don't really want to hear your reasons or beliefs. I am just talking i guess. Hubby: Then I would like to not be asked these questions if you do not want to hear the answers. That is really unfair to think you can tell me how you feel but you dont want to hear how I feel. Sister: You're right, then answer them. I really want to know, to see how on earth you explain away so many of these scriptures i have asked you about.
So this is why I am asking for help with this. We feel it is important to give them answers to their questions. It may save them from the Org...may save our family's relationship. Doubtful, but we can try! Also, they are accusing us of "taking the easy way...the lazy way." HA! This has been the hardest most arduous thing we've ever been through. We want them to see it has been carefully and thoroughly researched and thought out. Again, thanks so much for any help you can provide us with!
garybuss

Hi truthseekers2, Can you bring the JW to the appointment teaching? And ask her to explain it. Then go to the blood medical treatment suggestions. Organ transplants? Generation?

Have you REALLY researched these issues yourselves?

The JW will try to flip and spin. You need to not go with them on a flip or a spin. When you do, they win.

If they question your motives, sources or your personal beliefs, they are spinning and you need to never go there. Just repeat your last question.

You might ask the JW if she believes in religious freedom and ask her to explain what that means to her.

For me, debating with a JW is like getting into a pissing contest with a skunk or trying to reason with a drunk. I hate doing it.

gary
archangel01

Hello I'm here to help you the best I can
not forsake the gathering of ourselves together This script has nothing to do with a kingdom hall etc. Its about people in general. Remember the script that Jesus said when two or more are gathered I'm in there mist. You can apply that to anyone or thing like going to a friends house or talking to a neighbor or saying hi to someone at a store that sees you often, get it.
Go out and get the Book By RAYMOND FRANZ called IN SEARCH OF CHRISTIAN FREEDOM that book will answer ALL your Q's about the WTS. It will prove how false they are and is written very well.Hope this helps that is all
Elsewhere

The reason you are having dificulty answering these questions is because you are still thinking like a JW. In time you will learn how not to think like they do.
Hebrews 10:25 "not forsake the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you behold the day drawing near."
Answer: You have not "forsaken the gathering of ourselves"... you are here with us as JWD. It is arrogance on the part of JWs to think that one has the gather only with them.
Matthew 28:19,20 "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you."
Answer: You are talking about the bible... you are sharing your thoughts... you are fulfilling this requirement. It is arrogance on the part of JWs to think that one must talking about the bible with their literature.
Matthew 24:45 "Who really is the faithful and discreet slae whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them their food at the proper time?"
Question: Yes, who is it? Is this just another parable like the ten virgins that are talked about immediately afterward? If not, why not? Is this a literal person/class/organization/group? If so, how does one get from "Faithful and Discrete Slave" to "Watchtower Bible and Tract Society"? This is a good way to slowly guide them to investigate the 607/586 issue because the watchtower teaches that Jesus found them being faithful and discrete in 1919. If the 607 date is wrong, then Jesus did not return in 1919 finding them .
Edited by - Elsewhere on 5 February 2003 20:50:36
Joyzabel

Good points, archangel and Elsewhere.
I would strongly suggest you read Crisis of Consceince and In Search of Christian Freedom. Also Quotes has a great web site of WT quotes out of their literature. (see bottom of this site for a link to quotes)
Have fun.
j2bf
truthseekers2

Hi Gary. We plan on addressing many of the issues that you brought up with hubby's family that are willing to hear them. We have really researched many, many issues ourselves. I will admit we do not have an answer for everything yet, but from what we do know, we know with all our heart we have made the right decision to leave the Org. We are actually struggling with some of the issues of God, the Bible, etc. and are trying to take a breather, then work through them gradually. That is why we needed help with these Scriptures. For US, we dont feel we need to understand all this right now. We just know the JW's are not the place to be! But, we feel it is important to offer explanations to family as long as they are still listening to us. You are right, there is no sense in debating. But we do hope to present our reasons for leaving to them while they'll read it!
Archangel01, Thanks for your help as well. I thought I'd read something about gathering ourselves together the way you've explained it. It makes sense to ME, but I know it wont make sense to a die-hard JW. {sigh} Ah well! We are going to order all the Franz books this weekend...can hardly wait to begin reading!
Elsewhere, Bingo!!! "The reason you are having dificulty answering these questions is because you are still thinking like a JW." LOL When will the madness end?! ;) I was so glad you also stated that, "In time you will learn how not to think like they do." Whew...what a relief to know! On another note, thank you for your explanations of the scriptures. I see through the arrogance, but telling them that is another thing. I loved your explanation of the faithful and discreet slave. That is so what I was thinking when I just sat down with the Bible today and read that story. Why does there have to be some literal application for our time like they apply it? Its a very simple, beautiful lesson on its own merit. I dont know the 607/586 issue that you pointed to offhand though I'm sure weve come across it. I will be looking that one up for certain in the next day or so.
Joy2bfree, I used the Quotes site majorly in helping with my research on what to send to the family! That info is awesome and I am so thankful it is there for us! Like I said above, Franz books are coming soon...yahoo!
Thank you all! More? ;)
Edited by - truthseekers2 on 5 February 2003 21:21:0
A Paduan
it depends on who your "us" is

observe all I have commanded (note that the Samaritan didn't proselyse by the road or at the inn either - what about the Samaritan? - "do the same")

who is faithful (cover paedophilia up - leave the one to keep the ninety nine)

who is discreet (knock on everyone's door and leave books lately?)
discreet? - that's a lot of noise for a few people - Jws are faithful about judging, and a very, very little bit discreet - about judging (the backroom).
The Samaritan didn't ask the religion of the disadvantaged, didn't talk about his own - didn't boast of or keep tally of his deeds, or report to Samaritan headquarters about his "field service". "do the same"
Edited by - a paduan on 5 February 2003 21:38:54
NewLight2

The following 2 books should be all you need to answer the JW with Scripture.
"Jehovah's Witnesses Answered Verse BY Verse"
David A Reed - Baker Book House 1986
ISBN 0-8010-7739-7
"Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses"
Ron Rhodes - Harvest House Publishers
ISBN 1-56507-106-9
hooberus
While we are on the subject of the FDS. A key Watchtower doctrine is that Jesus found and appointed a Faithful and Discreet Slave Class in the year 1919.
A simple way to disprove the 1914, 1919 FDS doctrine is to simply show the 1919 Topical Index to the Watchtower Reprints. Under the "That" heading
"That Servant: An Individual, not a class"
Since the index summarizes the WT teachings up to July 1919 there was no FDS class for Jesus to appoint! I have a copy of the old index page which is probably not available in most Kingdom Hall libraries if you like I could mail it to you. I have never been a JW so I am not apostate.
The standard reply to such remarks is that there has been numerous helpings of New Light since 1919! If your points are not the latest WBTS thinking they are not considered as valid. This is how I would respond to the "new light" argument.
"Yes, Mr. Witness I know that the FDS teaching was changed in February 1927 to the current one that the FDS is a "class." However this is not the issue that concerns me. The main thing that concerns me is that the Watchtower claims that there was a slave class in the year 1919 when there wasn't one. In oder for Watchtower history to be correct Jesus had to appoint a slave class in the year 1919. The historical facts show that one did not exist, hense the Watchtower has lied about their history."
Here is another way to respond to the "new light" argument.
"Mr. Witness the Watchtower claims that the new light is progressive, right? . In fact the Watchtower first taught that the FDS was a "class", then the Watchtower claimed to have new understanding or new light that the FDS was an "individual not a class." So the idea that the FDS is"not a class" was the "new light". Then later the Watchtower returned to the "old light" and once again taught that the FDS was a "class."
Summary of Watchtower FDS teaching
1879 to 1896 "A class"
1896 to 1927 "An individual, not a class"
1927 to pres "A class"
hooberus

Matthew 28:19,20 "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you."
They shouldn't bring up this scripture to you because the WTS does not follow it!
They baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and in the name of the "spirit directed Organization" This is described in a 1985 and 1987 Watchower.

HELP!!!

Share this