Why isn't the Watchtower the true religion?

by StinkyPantz 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • StinkyPantz
    StinkyPantz

    I have been asked by a JW friend of mine to share with him the reasons why I believe that the Watchtower is not the true religion. What all do you think that I should share with him?

    -I'm going to share the information about their hypocrisy in being a UN NGO

    -I have an extensive list of their false prophecies

    -I thought about including info on the pedophile issue

    What else would catch his eye or possibly even convince him? The fact that he's asking me for proof is great, but this might be my only chance to convince him.

    TIA

  • Ed
    Ed

    Ask him why there has to be a "One True Religion" any more than there has to be a "One True Baseball Team"

  • chester
    chester
    -I have an extensive list of their false prophecies

    When you give him that list....tie in the scripture at Deuteronomy 18:20-22

    When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get Frightened at him.

    If there is some way that you can get him to read Raymond Franz' book COC he should surely come to understand that the Watchtower is not the true religion.

  • back2dafront
    back2dafront

    Have 'em read this:

    http://www.bible.ca/trinity/trinity-Mantey.htm

    Here is the letter written by Julius R. Mantey, whose Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament has been quoted by various Watchtower publications in their discussions of John 1:1-2:

    "I have a copy of your letter addressed to Caris in Santa Ana, California and I am writing to express my disagreement with statements made in that letter, as well as in quotations you have made from The Dana-Mantey Greek Grammar.

    1. Your statement: "their work allows for the rendering found in the Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures at John 1:1." There is no statement in our grammar that was ever meant to imply that "a god" was a permissible translation in John 1:1. A. We had no "rule" to argue in support of the trinity. B. Neither did we state that we did have such intention. We were simply delineating the facts inherent in Biblical language. C. Your quotation from P. 148(3) was in a paragraph under the heading: "With the Subject in a Copulative Sentence." Two examples occur here to illustrate that "the article points out the subject in these examples." But we made no statement in this paragraph about the predicate except that, "as it stands the other persons of the trinity may be implied in theos." And isn't that the opposite of what your translation "a god" infers? You quoted me out of context. On pages 139 and 140 (VI) in our grammar we stated: "without the article theos signifies divine essence...theos en ho logos emphasizes Christ's participation in the essence of the divine nature." Our interpretation is in agreement with that in NEB and the TED: "What God was, the Word was"; and with that of Barclay: "The nature of the Word was the same as the nature of God," which you quoted in your letter to Caris.
    2. Since Colwell's and Harner's article in JBL, especially that of Harner, it is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 "The Word was a god." Word-order has made obsolete and incorrect such a rendering.
    3. Your quotation of Colwell's rule is inadequate because it quotes only a part of his findings. You did not quote this strong assertion: "A predicate nominative which precedes the verb cannot be translated as an indefinite or a 'qualitative' noun solely because of the absence of the article."
    4. Prof. Harner, Vol. 92:1 (1973) in JBL, has gone beyond Colwell's research and has discovered that anarthrous predicate nouns preceding the verb function primarily to express the nature or character of the subject. He found this true in 53 passages in the Gospel of John and 8 in the Gospel of Mark. Both scholars wrote that when indefiniteness was intended that gospel writers regularly placed the predicate noun after the verb, and both Colwell and Harner have stated that theos in John 1:1 is not indefinite and should not be translated "a god". Watchtower writers appear to be the only ones advocating such a translation now. The evidence appears to be 99% against them.
    5. Your statement in your letter that the sacred text itself should guide one and "not just someone's rule book." We agree with you. But our study proves that Jehovah's Witnesses do the opposite of that whenever the "sacred text" differs with their heretical beliefs. For example the translation of kolasis as cutting off when punishment is the only meaning cited in the lexicons for it. The mistranslation of ego eimi as "I have been" in John 8:58. The addition of "for all time" in Hebrews 9:27 when nothing in the Greek New Testament supports it.

    The attempt to belittle Christ by mistranslating arche tes ktiseos "beginning of the creation" when he is magnified as "the creator of all things" (John 1:2) and as "equal with God" (Phil. 2:6) before he humble himself and lived in a human body here on earth. Your quotation of "The father is greater than I am" (John 14:28) to prove that Jesus was not equal to God overlooks the fact stated in Phil. 2:6-8. When Jesus said that, he was still in his voluntary state of humiliation. That state ended when he ascended to heaven. Why the attempt to deliberately deceive people by mispunctuation by placing a comma after "today" in Luke 23:43 when in the Greek, Latin, German and all English translations except yours, even in the Greek in your KIT, the comma occurs after lego (I say) -- "Today you will be with me in Paradise." 2 Cor. 5:8, "to be out of the body and at home with the Lord." These passages teach that the redeemed go immediately to heaven after death, which does not agree with your teachings that death ends all life until the resurrection. Cf. Ps. 23:6 and Heb. 1:10.

    The aforementioned are only a few examples of Watchtower mistranslations and perversions of God's Word. In view of the preceding facts, especially because you have been quoting me out of context, I herewith request you not to quote from the Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament again, which you have been doing for 24 years. Also that you not quote it or me in any of your publications from this time on.

    Also that you publicly and immediately apologize in the Watchtower magazine, since my words had no relevance in the absence of the article before theos in John 1:1. And please write to Caris and state that you misused and misquoted my "rule". On the page before the Preface in the grammar are these words: "All rights reserved -- no part of this book may be reproduced in any form without permission in writing from the publisher." If you have such permission, please send me a photo-copy of it.
    If you do not heed these requests you will suffer the consequences.

    Respectfully yours,

    Julius R. Mantey

    More info on the same subject here:

    http://www.bible.ca/Jw-NWT.htm

    What leading Greek scholars say about the NWT:

    1. Dr. Bruce M.
    2. Metzger , professor of New Testament at Princeton University, calls the NWT "a frightful mistranslation ," " Erroneous " and " pernicious " " reprehensible " "If the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists ." (Professor of New Testament Language and Literature)
    3. Dr. William
    4. Barclay , a leading Greek scholar, said "it is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest ."
    5. British scholar H.H. Rowley stated, "From beginning to end this volume is a shining example of how the Bible
    6. should not be translated ."
    7. "Well, as a backdrop, I was disturbed because they (Watchtower) had
    8. misquoted me in support of their translation." (These words were excerpted from the tape, "Martin and Julius Mantey on The New World Translation", Mantey is quoted on pages 1158-1159 of the Kingdom interlinear Translation)
    9. Dr. Julius
    10. Mantey , author of A Manual Grammar of the Greek New Testament, calls the NWT "a shocking mistranslation ." "Obsolete and incorrect." "It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 'The Word was a god.'"
  • "I have never read any New Testament
  • so badly translated as The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of The Greek Scriptures.... it is a distortion of the New Testament . The translators used what J.B. Rotherham had translated in 1893, in modern speech, and changed the readings in scores of passages to state what Jehovah's Witnesses believe and teach. That is a distortion not a translation ." (Julius Mantey , Depth Exploration in The New Testament (N.Y.: Vantage Pres, 1980), pp.136-137)
  • the
  • translators of the NWT are "diabolical deceivers ." (Julius Mantey in discussion with Walter Martin)

    The New World Translation is CRAP , therefore there's no way they can be the only true religion.

  • JT
    JT

    I think the most important thing to keep in mind is the same way folks become jw, is the same way they leave-

    they come in slowly one step at at time and that is how most leave-

    how many bible studies have you been on where the householder had a ton of questions and we always told them - we will get to that, but first we need to cover this and then you will better understand the answer to your question when we get to that in chapter 8-

    we feed them a little at a time- well i have found that we MUST DO THAT in helping folks to leave- if not we will give them INFORMATION OVERLOAD and they will shut down like a circuit breaker-

    start slow perhaps with the May 15, 1984 with the cover article on the 1914 gen that will not die out- the UN will be a tough one for you are limited in documentation other than from the Internet and we all know that jw are skeptical of info coming from the NET, but directly from the wt, well that is a different story-

    when you consideer that jw are taught to make excuses for the wt flip flops, can you imagine the problem in getting them to read something off the net-

    the wt publications contain enough info that can get you off to a great start-

    i usually approach it from- The type of decisions that we as jw made only to find out that the information was never based on the bible, but was the opinion of the Writing Dept-

    i always use the term Writing Dept instead of the Society or FDS, i take away all aura of something divine- calling it the Writing Dept opinion-- breaks it down to the level of the Editorial staff of the Washington Post- smile

    I used 1914 gen, Transplants and Alternative service, the reason why is because the information was LIFE AND DEATH ISSUES as well as future planning issues retirement, college, promotion on jobs, etc-

    all the information is availible to them off the CDRom for the most part, i show them just how foolish and dangerious the flipflops were to folks lives-

    but don't do the Over Kill or else it maybe a long time before you get the chance again-

  • StinkyPantz
    StinkyPantz

    Good ideas so far!

    Ed-

    I've considered going that route but for all I know there really might be only one true religion. First, I think though, it would be better to just "prove" that the Watchtower is wrong and then maybe work on that later.

    Chester-

    I was planning on reading that scripture first thing when I went into the Watchtower's false prophecies. I think the best way to try to prove the WTBTS is wrong via the Bible and their own words.

    Back2dafront-

    Great idea! I hadn't even thought about going that angle, thanks.

    JT-

    I know that overkill is not the route to go, I've learned my lesson. But the fact that he's asking shows he's already interested. Even as a Witness, I wasn't afraid of the Internet and neither is he. Besides, I actually wrote to the UN for my info, instead of merely copying it off of the web. I will take your advice and go into the changing doctrines about transplants and such. Unfortunately, I have no access to old Watchtower's and Awake!'s. I'll visit http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/ for some stuff but could you direct me towards and specific magazines?

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    The "true" religion is not the Watchtower, nor the Mormons, nor the Scientologists, but simply being Christian.

    Each of those others mentioned above have had to differentiate themselves in order to to justify their existence.

    So, why isn't the Watchtower "the Truth". Because it elevates its own publications to equal status, or higher, than the Bible. Ask any elder for the answer to a question and he will have to refer to the bound volumes, not the Bible. If he does turn to the Bible, it will only be through the "guidance" of the magazines. Jesus' followers recognised the "truth" by what he said. We can do the same. That's what I'd point out to your friend.

    Cheers, Ozzie

  • Silverleaf
    Silverleaf

    Ozziepost, I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your statement:

    The "true" religion is not the Watchtower, nor the Mormons, nor the Scientologists, but simply being Christian.

    There is no one TRUE religion, it's not Christianity any more than it is Islam or Judiasm or the Watchtower. Religion is in our hearts and every heart is different. We all have our own path and no one else can walk it for us or tell us the 'best' way to go.

    Silverleaf

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    Silverleaf,

    Jesus said that he was "the way, the truth, and the life". Personally I accept that. hence why, in my life, Christianity is the true religion.

    I'm very well aware that others take different paths. I don't try and criticise that. However, it's not for me the truth.

    The point I was making however was that "others mentioned above have had to differentiate themselves in order to to justify their existence". Take the Dubs. They claim in their literature to be not just Christians, but the true Christians. Why? Because if not, then why bother going to the KH at all. Why even have a WTS? They have to have doctrines that are unique in order to show themselves separate, and therefore justify their existence.

    Cheers, Ozzie

  • StinkyPantz
    StinkyPantz

    Ozziepost-

    I don't feel comfortable telling my friend that Christianity is the true religion since I don't believe that way. Really, I just want to prove that the Watchtower is not and then go from there.

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