Watchtower-1, Lee Elder-0
well friends it came tonight at the thursday meeting, a new video "No Blood Medicine Meets The Challenge". it has prepared case histories and testimony of several in the medical field show that no blood is good medicine. it is to be distributed to newly interested ones and to those in the medical profession it has been especially prepared for the non-witness viewing public. no general public distribution but could be offered to studies, nonbeleveing family, workmates school mates or anyone who might raise questions about jw stand on blood. direction will be given to brothers for distribution to doctors and hospitals in the local area. complete with medical footage and computer anamations to show what actual transfusion alternatives are and how they work. whether witnesses choose to accept or refuse these alternatives is left up to them.
the above are excerpts from the letter read to all congregation in the US soon to come in other languages.
Well what do you think of this, all the tall talk of reform coming this year and the wt just about to change the transfusion stand to a conscience matter seems to be just that, tall talk.
the information with the new video appears to mean one of two things:
1. the reformers within the organization have capitulated and lost the war so to speak, the hardlineres won and wt has no intention of any adjustment.
2. there never was a reform movement from within it was just the hopeless wish of those outside the organization, it never had a snowballs chance in hell of happening to begin with. those inside were just using their supposed reform stand to gather information on what apostates were doing.
does anyone have any alternative suggestion? i think the wt is to arrogant and feel they are too superior to make any adjustment that would benefit the rank and file. sorry lee, i think you were set up and screwed over. i do not think wt will destroy over 1 million videos stating a stand they plan to do away with in the next six months. so that is why i say wt-1, lee elder-0.
I have a suggestion but it is not about blood.
Is there enough of us out there willing to picket a major
assembly for the societies no tell policy on
child molesters. I'm game, Fred take my name down
reportback to the stooges this policy must stop NOW!!!
How many more kids need to suffer because of this?
One more would be too many for me.
Love and Peace to All-and to all think about those kids
one of them one day might be yours.
Most of us appreciate that the WTS' propaganda machine is well oiled
and capable of producing voluminous amounts of material that is quite
capable of impressing those who do not command a knowledge of the
Although I would like to see the policy quickly dispensed with, I have
never felt that was particularly practical although some members of
AJWRB disagree with me.
Ultimately, the WTS will disgard the policy when they perceive that they
have no other choice. We cannot make policy for the Watchtower. However,
we educate the public, the medical community and the Jehovah's Witness
community regarding the policy. This information creates pressure on
the WTS to try and defend their position. Recent articles in the Journal
of Medical Ethics, the British Medical Journal (and the resulting debates)
have demonstrated that they cannot win this debate on a level playing
field. I look forward to seeing the video as does Dr. Muramoto and other
With the changes instituted by the Watchtower in June of 2000, any argument
that Jehovah's Witnesses "abstain" from blood is ludricrous. The availability
of hemoglobin solutions and their use by Jehovah's Witnesses will save
thousands of lives. Based on the published comments of Hospital Information
Services in 1998 it seems probably that AJWRB's work played a significant
role in the WTS decision to permit hemoglobin solutions. 1
There will still be many JW's, particularly children, who will suffer and die
prematurely as of a result of the ban on platelets. This is the WTS' achille's
1 As recently as 1998 two officials from the Watchtower Society’s
“Hospital Information Services” wrote that Jehovah's Witnesses
“do not accept hemoglobin which is a major part of red blood cells
.... Jehovah’s Witnesses do not accept a blood substitute which
uses hemoglobin taken from a human or animal source."
Bailey R, Ariga T. The view of Jehovah's Witnesses on blood
substitutes. Artif Cells Blood Substit Immobil Biotechnol 1998;26:571-576.
I guess it all depends on what is in the video. Given the societies past record on quoting dubious sources or misquoting respected ones I wouldn't 'bet my life' on it being an honest presentation.
A shame many will though
I think our Watchtower clone "mesenger" missed the point.
It was never an issue that surgery without blood is the preferred method However the point is.
The bible teaches we should not EAT blood. We all agree there.
The bible does NOT preach against blood transfusions. The Society does.
The bible does not preach what parts of blood are permitted and which parts are not. The Society does.
Please feel free to proof me wrong Quoting the bible NOT a Watchtower.
The point is The Society teaches things which are NOT in the bible. We should all know what the bible sais about those who add to or take away from what the bible says. Revelation 20 I believe.
1) The Reformers are actually winning some battles. They may end up not winning the war, but they sure are winning stages of the battle. Take a look at the concessions the Society has made with respect to blood products. I bet that many in the organization remain ignorant of what products are allowed or which are banned. The June 15 and November 15 2000 WT QFR make those facts clear. The Society is gradually yielding ground. It is impossible to win the debate on blood based on the Society's current position. The efforts of the Reformers, and discussions like the "Question about Noah" thread started by Friend on the defunct Witnet, and others are progressively enlightening practicing JWs about the weakness of the Society's position on blood, both on the scriptural and moral fronts.
The Society will, as usual, tend to give the appearance that the status quo is being maintained. Recall the Bulgarian blood case. "Ordinary" (please, do excuse the use of the word) JWs must continue to think that the stance on blood is the same as it was. No prominence will be given to the changes ("adjustments"). They are only treated as QFR, not as standard WT articles. One reason for this is because the changes are being propelled, not by any scriptural research on the part of the Society, but due to advancements in the medical field, and questions from opposers and reformers. The recent HemoPure breakthrough portend more problems for the Society's stand. And as Lee Elder pointed out, it is impractical to expect the Society to totally and abruptly do away with the policy. Thew cost will be too great. The mills of the gods in the case of the blood issue will grind slowly, but surely. Progress has been made. The question of platelets remain however. That is another stage of the battle.
There seem to be evidence from recent occurrences that the Society will gradually revamp the position of blood. But it would be undesirable for such to be done under pressure from reformers. The changes must not be seen as resulting from efforts of opposers, and non-conformist JWs. Which is a reason why the Society will tread softly. There are loyal JWs watching - many are getting on the Net despite admonition to the contrary.
2) I believe there is actually a reform "movement". May be the "members" of the movement are not so organized as to be so called. But they are a movement, including loyal JWs who wish to remain JWs for personal and other reasons, but who would wish that the current position is changed. There are also others who, by virtue of their consciences, have come to a personal decision on what to do when confronted with a situation regarding the use of "banned" blood products - they would not refuse some of the banned products. So, in principle, they are for the reform, although not willing to be active members of the movement.
The gains of the continuing debate on blood will benefit both the world, and especially JWs. The battle rages on. The reformers have the best interests of their brothers and fellow humans at heart. The blood issue is like a field of thin ice; so safety is dependent on speed. The reformers would want the ongoing changes to take place swiftly. There is evidence that the Society is responding.
Older Tom quote:
::Please feel free to proof me wrong Quoting the bible NOT a Watchtower.
Actually, one could prove the Society's position wrong by using WT quotes!
Given the approval to use HEMOPURE in Africa,
and other alterantive remedies , has me thinking in the years or even moths tocome the WTBTS will include case histories where this was used.
I think they are INVESTED in this bloodless medicine , HEAVILY
So now with the door open to hemopure, which is made from cows blood, its just a new way to gain capital.
If they said no alterantive treatments, then you would wonder.
A couple points.
Bloodless medicine that you are talking about is "NOT" bloodless medicine. It is Blood conservation therapy. The doctors use techniques to get "catch" your blood and recirculate it back into your body during an operation but these techniques only work in certain circumstances and the WT doesn't tell its flock this. Don't fall for the "con". Also these blood conservation techniques which in reality are transfusions were banned by the WT a few years ago. Something their little press reports don't talk about much.
I don't care what anybody says this is the highest deception/con I have ever seen be pulled off. The WT allows fractions of blood because the scientific research has shown that fractions like albumin "naturally" move through the placental barrier between mother and fetus. Yet the WT fails to mention that the same science clearly shows red blood and white blood cells (which are banned) also move through the barrier as well. Go into "medline" and "query fetal nucleated red blood cells" and see how many hits you get - unbelievable. It took people at AJWRB to expose this little game and I commend them for it.
The Society is obviously still doing an end run around reality with this "video"...which is that they DO allow blood and dont want anybody to realize it and accuse them of being :::gasp:::: normal. They will go to these great, and Im sure, expensive lengths to prove themselves DIFFERENT and yet all one has to do is read their own literature to see that they DO ALLOW BLOOD, and that their stand is unbiblical and they KNOW it is. Why try to control the flow of this information if it is an ACCURATE portrayal of what they believe?? Obviously it isnt. Just like on their PR web site where they say that they do not shun those who "simply walk away from the organization" or that "disfellowshipping does not sever family ties" or that "only Jehovah knows" who will be in paradise, even tho they teach SPECIFICALLY that only THEY will. The list of people they say to give this to are NEW and wont have read the old literature, are QUESTIONING and dont have a clue what the true beliefs are, and wont be shown voluntarily and probably dont own any literature...and others who would be loyal to the Society and not question the content. If this is the TRUTH why not just give it to the press? If the Society's stand on blood is so clearly BIBLICAL why do they have to spend all this energy proving it? And what does how the blood FLOWS or what transfusions ARE have to do with Leviticus and Acts at all?
Watchtower 1, Lee Elder 0? I think not since the Watchtower runs and owns that particular scoreboard.
Just more Nazi propaganda for the Party.