How Many of U Really Believed This?

by eisenstein 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • eisenstein

    Hi Everyone,

    It's me. I've been away from the forum for a while. I've read some of your great posts while my roommate is on the forum, but haven't been able to write anything for a while. But here goes...

    How many of you really believed this as a JW or did you find it hard to sit with?

    Where the WTBTS uses the scripture in revelation: that God will put his thought into their thought, to devastate the harlot...rape her...make her her fleshly parts...

    I have always found this teaching very disturbing, because I would always wonder who would actually be the ones in "Babylon the Great" that this would refer to? I don't know if any of you have been the victim of violent rape or violent sodomy but, I cannot believe any compassionate God or the God of Love that I believe in would ever think of doing something like this, I don't think it could ever enter his heart.

    I was reading an article in the New Yorker the other day, and it was about a man who was an Artificial Limb Maker, he had read an article in the New York Times about the war in Sierra Leone. He read about how many of the children there have been victims of this terrible war and how the war mongers have amputated hundreds of children. There was one story about a 13 year old who was kidnapped and taken to a psychiatric hospital and GANG RAPED. After this they partially amputated her arm. She was able to escape with her arm partially dangling. She ran back to her home and finally found one of her relatives, her aunt. Her aunt had to finish the amputation by using a broken bottle to sever the rest of her arm. Anyway, this Artificial Limb Maker was so touched by the story in the New York Times he felt he had to do something to help, he got involved with the government and was able to get many of the children out of the country and help make them artificial limbs, get them into foster homes, etc. He is now in politics trying to do something more to help.

    I guess what I'm trying to say is that rape and devastation are such violent acts, I will not believe that Jehovah would put this thought into anyone. I find it just more disturbing propaganda promoted by a male dominating and domineering religion.


  • obiwan

    I understand your outlook, I have also wondered about such an act. To say that I believe it, no but the scriptures also come down to each ones own interpretation. You also have to remember that the scriptures are interpreted by man and so I feel it's safe to assume that some are incorrect in there translation, but to put it on the male gender is a bit of a stretch, we are all imperfect so anything we are involved in will be flawed in one way or another.

  • Navigator


    I agree. There is a saying that "God created man in His own image-and man promptly returned the favor". Thanks for the story of the artificial limb maker. I am reminded of something that Saint Satan posted in this forum; "The good in man is God in man, seeking to come through in expression".

  • eisenstein

    Hi Obiwan,

    I don't mean to sound like a total feminist, but think about it...Have there ever been and will there ever be any women on the governing body or able to become an elder or sit in judicial commitees, make shepherding calls, etc. I agree with you we are all imperfect and have our own flaws. It just seems to me that this propaganda always somehow berates women within the organization. I am not a female chauvinist if that's what you think. I have two older brothers I love dearly and my father who I didn't get to know very well I loved dearly. But, I have been the victim of childhood sexual abuse and was a victim of violent rape myself...all by men.

    Edited by - eisenstein on 1 February 2003 7:17:12

  • Francois

    I can't believe that a loving, compassionate, and merciful God would do many of the things attributed to the God of the Watchtower. And that includes ordering that families be ripped apart via the "loving arrangement" of shunning. If that arrangement is from God, I'm the Virgin Mary. To my mind, the Spirit only LEADS, it never DRIVES and the shunning arrangement is one that does nothing but attempts to extort compliance - that is, it attempts to DRIVE a person toward a certain system of beliefs. That's not the way of the Spirit, that's the way of the World.

    More evidence that JWs are a cult, and more reason to avoid them like the human plague they are.


  • ozziepost

    can't believe that a loving, compassionate, and merciful God would do many of the things attributed to the God of the Watchtower. And that includes ordering that families be ripped apart via the "loving arrangement" of shunning.

    Amen to that, Frank.

    Cheers, Ozzie


    Hi Eisenstein. Your post brought back a memory. I cannot remember the name of the book, but it was regarding the book of Revalation.

    I remember reading it, studying it, and really getting into it, but it was also, quite a disturbing book, and as intrigued as I was at the time with it, it sometimes caused me to raise questions.

    In a patriarchal religion, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, women are definitely admonished to keep their 'place'. (EW!)

    I think you raise good questions Eisenstein. As a woman who has endured some horrendous abuse at the hands of men, I empathize with you fully. I am so sorry to read that you have had to deal with such a personal trauma. Breaks my heart.

    When reading some of those prophecies (not literal, but still) women are not very often shown in a compelling light are they?

    It's great to see that women: free-thinkers, questioning JW sisters, and visitors to this forum, can express themselves freely, and share their thoughts and opinions with us, without fear.

    I hope you find comfort and support here with us. There are many countless wonderful supportive women on this forum.

    Good question Eisenstein. Take care of yourself. Thanks for sharing.

    To Francois: I'm with you, regarding your post (ditto).

    Edited by - RAYZORBLADE on 1 February 2003 9:18:34


    It seems to me that, like most other religions, the two prime commodities the WBTS is hawking are fear and guilt. Getting people to buy into either, or both, is essential to their agenda of control. Characterizing God simply as a merciful and compassionate father just doesn't get the job done. The treat of some horrific expression of His divine retribution is far more effective! And that shunning bulldookey offers a great bonus! It allows a great many of those who practice it to have an almost Abrahamic experience of martrydom. Just look at what they are willing to sacrifice for Jehovah!

    I have to go barf now!

  • obiwan

    Hi eisenstein,

    I totally agree with you on the way the wts views women but to go along with myohnseph it is all a scare tactic to make people behave ( for lack of a better term ).

    Now I will go barf as well !



    Am I hearing you saying that a loving God is also capable of rape --- as in performing an Act of Violence against Women?? I believe that is the jw perception of the scripture. Personally, I do not believe that our loving source of universal energy is capable of the dehumanizing act of rape.

    Gone to barf. . .


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