One more question NOW with my answer

by Yerusalyim 15 Replies latest jw friends

  • Yerusalyim

    God tested Abraham by telling him to sacrafice his son Issac. Since God is omniscient (knows all, knows the end from the beginning) He already knew Abraham would go through with it unless God stopped him. What was the purpose of this test?

    MusicmanCA came the closest to what I beleive is the answer to this quandry. The test wasn't to prove something to God, but rather to prove to Abraham the depth of his faith. To an extent it was for Issac as well. Issac knew what was going to happen and was obedient. This was an act of faith from both Abraham and Issac. Thus James is proven right, Faith, without works doesn't have power. The works that accompany faith are not to prove anything to God, but rather, to us. It also foreshadowed that God DID infact sacrafice HIS Son for us. Jesus is the ultimate in the action of faith. Obedient to the cross because of His faith.

    There is more of heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosphy, Horatio.

    Dickens: A Tale of Two Cities

  • Englishman


    I know the answer, but I'm not going to tell you. Azzazel didn't include me in her/his/it hit list, so I've decided no more Mr Nice Guy until I've had more sex.


  • Englishman

    I'm OK now, what was the question?

  • battman

    hi english,
    welcome back from holiday!!!

    good to see your "dry" wit at work.

    do you think it will be a long time until
    you are a "nice guy" again? not being
    "omni" anything i cant tell for sure.

    not of the onmi class

  • Introspection

    Well, of course that can be applied to a number of things, the Genesis account for instance. I've actually heard the following argument on this point: God has the ability to know all things but chooses not to, as he is all powerful but does not exert that power over all things, and I guess that's basically how free will is explained too.

  • battman

    i just reread your post again, deja vue all over.

    when you said "more" did you mean "any"?
    or were you saying that it would be "more"
    than you are presently receiving.

    could, or would, you define "more". i am not sure
    i even understand "any" at this point. LOLOLOLOL

    of the underutilized class

  • battman

    For a really fun evening go to the "insight" books
    and look up foreknowledge and foreordination.

    Please be sure you are sitting down and somewhat
    sober. Actually a few pints might help.

    If you have any "insights" pleaese keep them to your
    selves. This entire area makes me dizzy, sick and
    want to lay down.

    of the "wot me worry class?"

  • crossroads

    Yeru, can't resist
    'God said to Abraham kill me a son
    Abe said man you must be putin' me on
    God said No
    Abe said what
    God said you can do what you wanted but
    The next time you see me comin' you better run
    Abe said where you want this killin' done
    God said out on highway sixty one'

  • MuzicmanCa

    The test wasn't for God to see what would happen, but rather it was a lesson for Abraham. God doesn't need to figure things out.


  • GinnyTosken

    I don't know the answer to Yerusalyim's question, but while we are on the topic of Isaac and Abraham, I thought I'd share something I read in In the Beginning: A New Interpretation of Genesis by Karen Armstrong.


    The primary casualty of Mount Moriah was Isaac. How do you cope with the fact that your father was prepared to kill you in cold blood? How can you relate to a deity who treats you as a mere pawn in a test of his chosen one? The Bible seems to indicate that Isaac lacked the resilience of Ishmael, his half brother. After Mount Moriah, the Bible does not let Isaac speak again until he is on his deathbed. Isaac was by far the most passive of the three patriarchs. There are virtually no stories told about Isaac in his prime: one of these is simply another version of the tale of Abraham and Pharaoh and may have been included by the editors at this point because of a dearth of Isaac material. Isaac is yet another of the survivors of Genesis who found it impossible to integrate past trauma. A mere two chapters after Abraham's death, we see Isaac as a prematurely aged, blind, and dying man--an eloquent image of blighted existence. Isaac's life seems a blank after his father bound him on the altar and came at him with a knife. It is, perhaps, not surprising that he called God "the Fear" (Gen. 31:42, 53). . . .

    It is perhaps not fanciful to suggest that Abraham's readiness to kill his own son dealt a mortal blow to God's chosen family. What could Abraham have said to Isaac on the homeward journey? And how did Sarah react to the news that her husband had been prepared to plunge a knife into the breast of the son she had waited all her life to bear? Sarah had sometimes been skeptical about Abraham's God. Did she now recoil in horror from Abraham and his divine patron, despite the happy outcome of the test? In the very next chapter we read of Sarah's death. It is almost as though the shock killed her. . . .

    In both of the two most important scenes of Isaac's life he is lying down--on the altar of sacrifice, and on his deathbed. We find Isaac confined to that deathbed, blind and moribund, for twenty years. His life was a slow dying. In some ways, he shared the characteristics of an accursed man: he was paralyzed, passive, and deathbound. Preachers sometimes give the impression that religion will inevitably bring sweetness and light into our lives. We will feel God's love and become whole and fulfilled. Our faith will give us a consciousness of God's presence that will make us serene and joyful. But Genesis indicates that this is by no means always the case. Perhaps God had wanted Abraham to argue with him on Mount Moriah, as he had argued for the people of Sodom. Or perhaps, seeing the consequences inflicted by his "test" upon Isaac, God came to realize that too relentless a faith can lead to fanaticism and to a lack of humanity that has permanent and damaging effects upon others.

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