Examples in the Bible?

by happyout 13 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  happyout

  I am not in a position to do research on this, but maybe someone can help me out. Dubs don't celebrate birthdays because the two examples in the Bible were negative, right? Well, each time Jesus went into a "temple", didn't he have a negative experience? He went postal one time, and destroyed the place, right? How do these examples show religious buildings? Shouldn't we stay away from them, too? Like I said, I can't research this myself right now, but if someone could let me know if my memory is correct on what happened when Jesus was in the temple, I would really appreciate it?

  Thanks!!
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  peacefulpete

  The story of Jesus taking the temple by storm and preaching there 3 days has some intereting implications. According to records on any given day around 20,000 Jewish attendants and 5-600 Roman soldiers were present to ensure such a thing never happened. In fact it had been attempted before. This place was huge and it was the largest institution in the country. It has been argued by those scholars who do not dismiss the account altogether, that this must be a vacuumed version of an armed assult on the temple. As crazy as this might sound it does explain some odd details. I will explain more if anyone wants.
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  RAYZORBLADE

  Happyout, that's was a good analogy.

  Good point, and come to think about it...because I have forgotten so much (post 19 years away from the Borg), that's a very good question.

  Peacefulpete, I liked your post in the other category. I'm not one to delve into scripture anymore, but, I could read what you posted, and it didn't cause me to snooze. Interesting ancient cultural cross referencing.

  Happyout, when you refered to Jesus 'going postal' that cracked me up, but still a very good topic, and make sure to let us know when YOUR birthday is, so we can make it a very positive experience on here .

  Edited by - RAYZORBLADE on 31 January 2003 0:33:10
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  happyout

  PeacefulPete - If you have time, I would love to hear more detail on this. I so appreciate your taking the time to explain it.

  RayzorBlade - My birthday was Jan 13, I was thankful that people on the board remembered and sent me their best. I will consider your asking as a belated happy birthday, so Thanks!!
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  peacefulpete

  happyout...I don't know your position about the bible but to explain more will require you consider the possibilty that the writings do not represent actual history but rather a religiously motivated interpretation of it. While some go as far as arguing gainst the existance of a jesus at all, most feel the legend was loosely based around a historical figure. The compelling reason for this is irronically the inclusion of irregularities in the stories. For example the detail that Jesus was from Nazareth. It would have been more logical for an entirely fictional Jewish messiah to have been from Jerusalem or Bethlehem. This was covered by the addition of a birth tale in two of the Gospels. The story itself is pulled straight from pagan mythology but the location of birth was then moved to Bethlehem. It was not part of Mark which is regarded as the oldest of the 4 versions. In addition the fake prophecy "quoted" by the writer of Mathew at 2:23 was invented to cover this awkward detail of Jesus having been from Nazareth. So these odd details that don't fit the story well are often analyed as possible historical kernels that were public knowledge by the time these stories were written. Rather than ommittting these kernels they were forced to reinterpret them. The story about the temple cleansing is one of these odd details. The political and religious environment of the time is often poorly understod by those who read these accounts. The Priesthood was considered illegitimate by number of militerstic sects of Judaism due to it's acceptance of Roman presence. A number of armed revolts from these groups attacked not only Romans but even more often Jews. It was reguarded astheir sacred duty as the Bible stories had described Jew killing Jew over issues of idolotry etc. The infamous Daggermen would slip into a crowd of R&F jews and when cued start stabbing. The Zealots where a well known group of armed Jewish resistors. It is speculated that Jesus and his band of followers were actually Zealots who sought to use armed force as well as spoken propaganda to overthrow the priesthood and it was hoped that then God would bless them and help them remove the Romans. Interestingly Peters name is "Simon the Zealot and James and John were called the "sons of rage or thunder". History says that Peter was executed for the murder of one possiby two leaders of a rival sect.(another topic).

  When the NT was written much had changed for Christianity. It was now seeking Roman acceptance in the midst of rising Jewish insurrection. The stories were rewritten, implicating the Jewish leaders as the true enemy of Christ and Christians. Another study will reveal that much of what Jesus is quoted as saying in fact was from rabbis of the time and the words put into the mouths of Pharisees would never have happened in light of Pharisitic teaching. The ridiculous words at the supposed trial where Pilate is absolved from all responsibility and the crowd cries out that 'the blood be upon our children' are obvious fictions designed to assuage Roamn relations of the late first and early second century.

  Nearly all of the words attributed to Jesus are demonstratively counterfeit. Most are mythic legends from other cults some are direct quotes from other writers, some are later additions to smooth over rough seams in the story. As to the temple story , either it is a kernel of truth about Jesus and his armed band of Zealots explaining his subsequent trial for sedition, or it might refect the activities of another man who's legend became welded to Jesus.' This explanation is consistent with the way religions begin and evolve as well as consistant will NT irregularities with historical records.

  A number of books on this subject but I will recommend one: The birth of Christianity Reality and Myth, by Joel Carmichael (1989)

  Edited by - peacefulpete on 31 January 2003 14:38:4
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  Liberty

  Thanks Peacefulpete! I learn something new nearly every day I come here.

  I'd never thought about how hard it would be for a simple Jesus type person to single handedly walk into the Temple and start assaulting people. The Romans were sticklers for order so the Temple (as an important public building with money involved) would have had the security of a Whitehouse or a Las Vegas Cassino. No one would last 5 seconds in such a place before being wrestled to the floor and arrested if they were unarmed and acting alone. Like so much of the Bible this is yet another event that could NOT have happened as written. More proof that the Bible is mostly fiction and that Jesus could not be who the Christians claim him to be.

  Edited by - Liberty on 31 January 2003 15:16:46
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  SwedishChef

  "I'd never thought about how hard it would be for a simple Jesus type person to single handedly walk into the Temple and start assaulting people."
  
  Hmmm. How can the Messiah, who is God almighty in the flesh, who created the Heavens and earth, ever manage to preach and drive merchants out of His temple?
  
  This argument is based upon the assumption that the Bible isn't true.
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  Parousia

  Did he "assault people" or did he "assault" a table?
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  acsot

  PeacefulPete: Really enjoyed your post - I'm learning a lot while I sit here at work waiting for the boss to return!

  "The Birth of Christianity - Reality and Myth" - another book to add to my growing "To Read" list !
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  Liberty

  Swedish Chef, the Bible itself says nothing about Jesus performing a miracle or using His special freezing powers on the guards so we only know He walked in and went "postal". If He used super powers I'm guessing it would have said He did since no opportunity was ever lost when it came to the Bible writers citing magic powers. Also If Jesus used magic powers in this incident the evil money changers and their tables would have lifted themselves up and floated out of the building but instead Jesus used plain muscle power to overturn the tables and chased out the merchants with a whip.

  Parousia, the Bible clearly states that the money changers were physically chased from the Temple by Jesus, so, yes he assaulted them too.