My father (JW) watched part of it and absolutely freaked. First thing he said was "don't believe everything you see on that." He went on to rant and rave about "look at her" (the tatooed girl) and how he didn't think it was right that they go on television with this. He made absolutely NO sense whatsoever. I said "Dad, they DID go to the police, and they were all shunned for doing so. The elders never did a damn thing." He went on and on and started saying "So what are you going to do? Never go to the meetings again because of this?!" He actually had the gall to tell me how "negative" I was about everything in the Organization (to which I replied: that's because they've screwed alot of lives up!) and he then said "You don't go out in Service" and I shot back "Neither do YOU!!" He looked half shocked/embarrassed when I said that and he kinda mumbled "well, not as much as I should" (he hasn't gone out for years and years). I said "This crap is coming from the Governing Body who supposedly have a direct line to Jehovah. Do you really believe Jehovah is blessing them for all this crap?" He said "no", but that Jehovah IS blessing the preaching work. I said "Oh pul-lease, there hasn't been any increase in years." He yelled that obviously I hadn't read the latest magazines cause there were over 300,000 baptized last year. I said "yes, and most of that is either in Third World countries or it's people who were born Witnesses and who are now getting baptized. Very, very few actually come in from the world and we've been at 6,000,000 for the last 7 or 8 years. And if increases are a measuring stick for Jehovah's blessing, then I guess he's blessed the Mormons for their preaching cause they've got over double the amount of people we do (he told me to stop being so ridiculous)." He totally disagreed and went on and on and started in again about how you can't believe everything that these people said cause for sure the tatooed girl was lying. I said "for god's sake, her step-father admitted he molested her and he got 56 years in jail. How the hell is she lying about it?" My mother came out to see what all the commotion was about and she actually said to dad "this is not right that this cover up is going on". I said "these people were molested as children, which screws you up for life. We have absolutely no idea what that would be like or how it would screw us up. On top of that, they turned to fellow christians for help and support and instead they were shunned and made to feel a thousand times worse than what they already did." He calmed down somewhat and I firmly believe that this particular program, for whatever reason, really "challenged" his faith in the Organization. My father is not stupid. If the men at the top who are supposedly the "Faithful and Discreet Slave Class" are purposely covering up crimes and protecting pedophiles, then they are behaving neither faithfully or discreetly and could not possibly be blessed by Jehovah or have His approval. If they don't have His approval, then how is this "the one true faith?" I said to mom after "Dad seems to have a real fear and paranoia about facing the prospect of dying in this System of Things." She said 'yes he certainly does." So I think from Dad's perspective, this religion is the only hope he has (even though they screwed him out of his pension), and the very notion that they are like "men behaving badly" is too overwhelming for him and that's why he absolutely freaked out. The idea that he's been duped for the last 60 years of his life is not a pleasant prospect for him, and I think he'd rather just ignore the problem at his age.
just finished fifth estate
by Inquiry 14 Replies latest jw friends
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hawkaw
No .... Mary ... this program and YOU caring enough for him that you talked to him about it and stood firm ... really changed him.
Cool !!!
hawk
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Nosferatu
Watched the program (last night) with my GF. Of course, I taped it. I believe that this program was incredibly powerful, and anyone who had the slightest doubt about the JWs has had their foundation shaken. My GF got quite emotional during the program. She had every right to.
Before this program, I was talking to my JW mother about it. She said she was going to watch it and get a kick out of all the lies that would be told on the show. This morning, I asked her what she thought of the show, and she told me "I didn't know what to think of it." The thing is, my mother was abused by her father years before she joined the Troof. Now she's joined this religion that she protests is a "better way of life", however, it's nothing more than a group of life-controlling people. All the shit still exists.
I believe that the seeds I have been planting in my mother have been slowly growing, and this show has contributed muchly. The show was very well done, covering the facts quite well. I hope there is a follow-up sometime in the near future.
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wheelwithinwheel
Hey Mary, your description of your dad sounds just like mine. I used to think I was the only one with a dad like that but I guess there's plenty in the org. As soon as Holly was introduced I said to my wife "Thats it, if the T.V was on at the parents house you can be sure it was just turned off" Tattoos and nose ring = rebellion = liars; and we will not listen to anything such a person has to say. When CBC showed her smoking that really clinched it: She would never tell the truth. She must be disfellowshipped. No wonder the congregation knew she was lying about the step-dad.
I remember dad talking about a brother being arrested for robbery and murder some years back. He told us he knew the brother was innocent. I said if he was condemned, there must have been some proof. All he could say was "He was wrongfully convicted, he was innocent" ..... why?.... "He was a brother". The congregation never took any action.
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Mulan
We watched it last night, on CBUT, here in Seattle. I taped it too. It was the best thing done on this subject yet. (the Panorama show was very powerful too, though)
Bill Bowen did an especially good job. Most JW's will discount what Holly Berry says because of the way she looks, instead of seeing that the way she looks (the ways she made herself so unnattractive) was caused by what was done to her. She was pretty powerful, and so was the policeman who helped her.
It was appalling that the WT paid for the attorney representing Paul Berry.
The woman detective who investigated the case (can't remember which case) was so good!
Did anyone notice that the molester they had on hidden camera, shoveling snow, had Christmas decorations on his house? And he is still a JW?
If I were still a JW, and had seen this show, I would be angry and very disillusioned. You can only "shelve" so many things, and then the shelf falls down. I think it might fall for some JW's.
All in all just a great show.
Edited by - mulan on 30 January 2003 10:58:30