WHERE DID ALL THAT WATER GO?

by MYOHNSEPH 70 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    As usual, we find a typical YEC "scientist", Steve Austin, skewing the truth. Readers can compare for themselves what Austin claims with what one of those early Christian geologists actually said:

    From Science and Creationism (Ashley Montagu ed., Oxford University Press, New York, 1984, pp. 134-135):

    Flood geology was considered and tested by early-nineteenth-century geologists. They never believed that a single flood had produced all fossil-bearing strata, but they did accept and then disprove a claim that the uppermost strata contained evidence for a single, catastrophic, worldwide inundation. The science of geology arose in nations that were glaciated during the great ice ages, and glacial deposits are similar to the products of floods. During the 1820s, British geologists carried out an extensive empirical program to test whether these deposits represented the action of a single flood. The work was led by two ministers, the Reverend Adam Sedgwick (who taught Darwin his geology) and the Reverend William Buckland. Buckland initially decided that all the "superficial gravels" (as these deposits were called) represented a single event, and he published his _Reliquiae diluvianae (Relics of the Flood)_ in 1824. However, Buckland's subsequent field work proved that the superficial gravels were not contemporaneous but represented several different events (multiple ice ages, as we now know). Geology proclaimed no worldwide flood but rather a long sequence of local events. In one of the great statements in the history of science, Sedgwick, who was Buckland's close colleague in both science and theology, publicly abandoned flood geology -- and upheld empirical science -- in his presidential address to the Geological Society of London in 1831.

    `Having been myself a believer, and, to the best of my power, a propagator of what I now regard as a philosophic heresy, and having more than once been quoted for opinions I do not now maintain, I think it right, as one of my last acts before I quit this Chair, thus publicly to read my recantation....

    `There is, I think, one great negative conclusion now incontestably established -- that the vast masses of diluvial gravel, scattered almost over the surface of the earth, do not belong to one violent and transitory period....

    `We ought, indeed, to have paused before we first adopted the diluvian theory, and referred all our old superficial gravel to the action of the Mosaic flood.... In classing together distant unknown formations under one name; in giving them a simultaneous origin, and in determining their date, not by the organic remains we had discovered, but by those we expected hypothetically hereafter to discover, in them; we have given one more example of the passion with which the mind fastens upon general conclusions, and of the readiness with which it leaves the consideration of unconnected truths.'

    AlanF

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hey AlanF,you have the patience of a saint.Your dealing with a pretty thick character..Friday gets the boot December 24th..Hooberus posts him January 26 to debate him,LOL!...OUTLAW

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    "Hey AlanF,you have the patience of a saint.Your dealing with a pretty thick character..Friday gets the boot December 24th..Hooberus posts him January 26 to debate him,LOL!...OUTLAW"

    I believe that you are refering to my post "Info for Yardirf" under scandals. My post was to provide information and not to necessarily "debate him." Also even if someone is booted they can still call up this site and read information.

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Alan F said

    "As usual, we find a typical YEC "scientist", Steve Austin, skewing the truth. Readers can compare for themselves what Austin claims with what one of those early Christian geologists actually said:"

    Austin is clearly presenting Sedgewick as a progressive creationist. Progressive creationists do not believe in a single global flood, but instead in a series of catastrophies which caused various extinctions. therefore your claim that Austin is "skewing the truth" is false. Austin is not presenting Sedgewick as being a believer that all the strata was laid down in a single global flood.

    Misconception No. 1. The geologic column was constructed by geologists who, because of the weight of the evidence that they had found, were convinced of the truth of uniformitarian theory and organic evolution.

    It may sound surprising, but the standard geologic column was devised before 1860 by catastrophists who were creationists. 1 Adam Sedgewick, Roderick Murchison, William Coneybeare, and others affirmed that the earth was formed largely by catastrophic processes, and that the earth and life were created. These men stood for careful empirical science and were not compelled to believe evolutionary speculation or side with uniformitarian theory. Although most would be called"progressive creationists" in today's terminology, they would not be pleased to see all the evolutionary baggage that has been loaded onto their classification of strata.

    Edited by - hooberus on 28 January 2003 18:45:38

    Edited by - hooberus on 28 January 2003 19:24:52

    Edited by - hooberus on 28 January 2003 19:25:53

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Alan F said:

    "Another thing that YECs hate is that fossils are nearly always found in the order that one would expect if life had evolved on its own. The rare exceptions are in places where large masses of rock have been overturned or otherwise massively disturbed by extreme tectonic movements, but in all these cases there is plenty of evidence of the disturbance. YECs are embarrassed that they have to come up with idiotic claims to explain this ordering, like "The smarter animals like mammals could run faster from the rising water and so that's why they're always found in higher sedimentary levels." Please!"

    Everyone concedes that fish fossils are generally found below amphibian fossils, and reptile and mammal fossils are generally found above fish and amphibian fossils. However in any one location normally only a few "geologic syatems" are found in place. Fossils may be "nearly always found in the order that one would expect if life had evolved on its own" (or for that matter if laid down by a flood.). However is is very common to find huge time gaps bewtween strata with no evidence of long ages as required by evolution. For example there are places where Devonian strata directly and conformally overlay Cambrian strata witn no physical evidence of "hundreds of millions of years" of erosion inbetween. This common phenomena of supposedly "much younger" strata directly and conformally overlying "much older strata" without evidence of erosion inbetween calls into question the whole concept of geologic ages.

    Edited by - hooberus on 28 January 2003 19:9:20

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Alan F said:

    "Geology is entirely independent of evolution. Geology supports conventional notions of evolution, and vice versa, but they do not determine one another. They support one another. Do you understand the difference?"

    While the science of geology existed before modern evolutionary theory, "Historical Geology" is very dependent on evolution. Just look at a historical geology texy book. The one in my library uses evolution as one of its basic interpretative principals. It even mentions evolution on the cover page!!

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Alan F said:

    "So the fossil record itself, in its general ordering, supports the notion that life evolved. It also supports the notion that life was created, but this has plenty of other problems. Once again, YECs lamely deny any evidence at all that supports the dreaded "evolution".

    I have read in "YEC" literature that the fossil record (succession) can be interpreted to support the concept that life evolved or was created (I believe this is stated in the book "The Young Earth" by John Morris).

    Alan F said:

    "They fail to understand that the fossil record says nothing at all about the origin of life, only about its development and change over the course of several billion years. Oops! Another YEC no no."

    I don't believe that I have ever read that creationists have ever stated that the fossil record sould say something about the "origin of life".

  • Realist
    Realist

    hooberus,

    don't you find it interesting that all flieds of science (especially astrophysics, biology, geology, anthropology etc.) found tons of evidence supporting evolution and huge problems with creation? why is that if evolution is nothing but nonsense?

  • Valis
    Valis

    hooberus...evolution of plant and animal life contributes to the geologic record, but it makes up a small portion of the geologic record as a whole. My study of geology included examination, finding, and classifying fossils, which lead to my understanding of how formations or rock come to be and how long they exist before that happens, and they are determining factors in the larger picture. That is to to say that the geological records blow the bible version of creation out of the water as myth and BS propagated by the delusional ones who couldn't stomach coming from primate or monkey.. For if they hadn't evolved on their own and died and settled to the bottom to be found later,then maybe everything was created 6000 years ago..........BTW have you taken both sections of Geology? The Physical and Historical sections? There is so much more than the fossil record that refutes creationism, including the geologic idea that there can be other planets and beings in the universe if all planets and natural elements play by the same rules and develop out of the base chemicals of life that have been identified. At least we discussed that when I took geology....

    Sincerely,

    District Overbeer

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    Realist I would say that the situation is in fact the opposite. Many fields of science biology especially have found lots of evidence for creation and tons of problems with evolution. Unfortunately the educational system is so lopsided for evolution that only evidence supporting evolution is presented, with problems being suppressed or glossed over. And evidence for creation is censored out before the discussion even begins!.

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