Rebel With A Cause....
" Only the good die young". Or at least they remain eternally young and heroic particularly if they died for YOU. The trouble is we can outgrow our hero worship and our opinions of that person can change.
This is what has happened to me with my childhood friend and my hero JESUS. I no longer believe he died for my sins. But I want to keep the figure of the man alive in my heart so this is how I do that:-
Jesus remains to me a religious fanatic, a young Jew who wanted to make the world a better place to live in. A REBEL WITH A CAUSE, who fought the establishment. Each of the parties, Pharasis, Scribes and Romans might have used him for their political ends, but he was an idealist who was willing to die for what he believed in.
Being the " son of God" is easy being "a man" is harder. That is enough for me and I still class my childhood friend as a hero,and my " Rebel with a Cause"
Anyway how do you see your Jesus today? Is he the son of God? Simply a man? Or a fictional character?
"Complete and utter lunatic" is a viable option.
I`m more inclined to think of him as a fictional Character or if he did indeed exist at all , a man whose exploits have been blown all out of proportion , exaggerated and embellished by people with an agenda .
Smiddy "I'm more inclined to think of him as a fictional character..."
And the world would be a sadder place with out its fictional characters. Imagine a world of literature with out Tom & Huck,or Sherlock @ Watson,. And what about our great comedians, or actors from Errol Flynn & John Wayne,to James Dean,De Niro & Pacino, the fictional characters they portray become real to us and in some strange and magical way enrich our life's.
Yet each of the fictional book characters, or the characters portrayed by the actors will be outlived by time, and yet our " idealist fool" (which is how Anne Frank described Jesus) lives on and on....maybe for many because of the message of hope? Ironically many a war has been blamed on that message.
Rebel: " . . .great comedians, or actors from Errol Flynn,to John Wayne, to James Dean to De Niro & Pacino, the fictional characters they portray become real to us and in some strange and magical way enrich our lives."
Yeah, but humans haven't slaughtered and oppressed each other for the past 2000 years because of the likes of John Wayne. Nor are they sitting around gleefully awaiting their god to destroy billions. Twice. Unless you count the bad guys the Duke offed - in celluloid.
You can spin this woo all you want, even calling your precious a rebel with a cause. At the end of the day (and the beginning) it is still woo (I'm saying woo instead of you know what cause I promised Bonsai to be sweet - it is killing me to do so, but I'm trying).
a fair and valid point, however I never referred to Jesus as "my presious" ( so please don't assume that) I said the character was " a rebel with a cause" who like Smiddy, I believe to be a fictional character.
I also think many Christians believe the message of Jesus, was a war between evil and good. So in short they believe in " just war"
Having said that we all like our baddie films, and make heroes of Killers like " Billy the kid" & " Butch & Sundance" ect. I believe these Idealised images and views of manliness,are seen for what they are entertainment.The difference is I believe people do not see Jesus as entertainment.
Would the view many have of Jessus be weakened with out the violence to the story? I believe to maintain "Jesus popularity " the violent death of Jesus was needed, as much as the message of peace many claim he delivered .
I agree 100% with Smiddy - (s)he took the words right out of my mouth.
So do I LoveUnHateExams.
But I think violent death creates a Legend.
" America has known many rebellions,
but never one like this:
millions of teenage rebels heading for nowhere,
some in' hot-rod" cars, the others on the
blare of rock 'n roll music, some with guns in their hands.
And at their head- a DEAD leader"
Picture Post October 8th 1956.
That was written on the death of James Dean . His VIOLENT death made him " immortal" to his generation, and only time has diminished that stature. But the Jesus death ( JESUS DEATH even spells like JAMES DEAN) has survived over 2000 years.
i think Jesus was untouchable until the Internet. Now it's harder to believe that the grave was empty and that he rose ....
You asked a fair question so I will give a fair answer....
I dont know!
I am trying to work past our "break-up phase" me, God, Jesus, organized religion, etc.
At this point it is all one big ball of wax. I am unraveling it as I move through my days. I read the opinions of others here and it helps me to isolate my own feelings more clearly.
For example, I already know I dont want this experience (being a JW) to leave me reactionary. I dont want to bounce automatically in to being a jaded bitter person just because I was suckered once.
I want to explore ALL lines of thought including the possibility that there is no God/Jesus/ spirit life.
BUT this comes with a proviso....I want to explore new lines of thinking with kind intelligent people.
So thank you for being brave enough to put your opinion out there for me to weigh and consider. I really appreciate your viewpoint - especially the part about how other notable characters can and indeed have added to our dimension of thought on how to live a life.
and to DJS - yes I do see you being sweet! You sweetheart you : ) and thank you for that...it means I can read your post instead of automatically avoiding it by scrolling right past with no look see. I can learn much from you and want to be able to read your words - so thanks!
If I were a solely practical person, I'd be inclined to say that Jesus of Nazareth was an idealistic but ultimately misguided man who started a movement that evolved way differently that what he ever expected.
Most of the time, I'm pretty practical.