Neanderthals Not Human!

by metatron 35 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • rem
    rem
    When people make fun of what people earlier believed, and brag that "Now we know how it is, what it is like, now we have the 100 % truth, no further evidence is needed" - and then, say in 10 years' time, theyare ones who will look rather stupid, because then new things will have been unearthed or discovered.

    I've never read Carl Sagan say anything like, "now we have the 100% truth, no further evidence is needed." Milton Henschel, on the other hand....

    To paint scientists in such a picture is to display gross ignorance of the scientific method and the actual writings of scientists. Journalists many times exaggerate the claims of scientists, but if you carefully read their actual work you will rarely find this type of bragging. That said, there are certain things that we do know to such a high certainty (though never 100%) that we call them facts.

    rem

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    Maybe Neanderthals were the Nephilim? Nothing will mess up those DNA tests more than throwing in a little demon seed!!!

    Hey, put away the flamethrowers! I'm KIDDING!!!

    Edited by - NeonMadman on 29 January 2003 12:7:49

  • Vida
    Vida

    There have been many kinds of humans down threw the history,

    and the neanderthals are just one of them

    The first humans lived in paradis,

    the neanderthals did not

  • Mulan
    Mulan
    The Discovery Channel ran an exelent program on the Neanderthals a couple of months ago where the talked about the DNA evidence that the Neanderthals became extinct.

    We saw that. Very interesting. The Cro Magnon man has the same DNA we do, but Neanderthals did not. Both really did exist. A puzzle.

  • Earnest
    Earnest

    This week's Nature journal (12 June 2003) reports that the oldest known fossils of modern humans have been found in the Afar region of Eastern Ethipia. The skulls of two adults and a child have been dated at 160,000 years old. The most complete of the three skulls is probably that of a male aged between his late twenties and mid-thirties. It is slightly larger than the largest modern man, with a bigger brain, but has the less prominent brow ridges and high forehead that distinguish homo sapiens from earlier species. Approximately 60,000 years earlier than any remains of modern man previously found, they have been assigned to a new subspecies that the researchers have named Homo sapiens idaltu, to differentiate them from contemporary humans, Homo sapiens sapiens. Idaltu means "elder" in the Afar language.

    These provide some confirmation that modern man did not evolve from Neanderthals, which arose about 300,000 years ago and died out around 30,000 years ago. These fossils predate most of the known Neanderthal remains.

    Professor Chris Stringer of the Natural History Museum in London, said: "They are probably the most significant finds of early Homo sapiens so far." His News & Views article in Nature can be read at http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/nature/journal/v423/n6941/full/423692a_fs.html.

    Earnest

  • Realist
    Realist

    once again people talk about science who have not a clue how it works!

    science does never state it knows exactly how things are! what science does is to propose theories which then are tested. therefore science cannot determine reality with 100 % accuracy and never claims to do so! science can disprove theories and can put them in the trashcan of history. findings of the last 200 years have shown clearly that genesis as well as the rest of the bible are outdated rubbish.

  • Earnest
    Earnest
    once again people talk about science who have not a clue how it works!

    I am not quite sure what brought that on but post Chris Stringer's article for your edification.

    Newly discovered fossils from Ethiopia provide fresh evidence for the 'out of Africa' model for the origin of modern humans, and raise new questions about the precise pattern of human evolution .

    The idea that modern humans originated in Africa, with populations subsequently spreading outwards from there, has continued to gain support lately. But much of that support has come from analyses of genetic variation in people today, and from fossil and archaeological discoveries dated to within the past 120,000 years — after our species evolved. Hard evidence for the inferred African origin of modern humans has remained somewhat elusive, with relevant material being fragmentary, morphologically ambiguous or uncertainly dated. So the fossilized partial skulls from Ethiopia are probably some of the most significant discoveries of early Homo sapiens so far, owing to their completeness and well-established antiquity of about 160,000 years.

    There are two broad theories about the origins of H. sapiens. A few researchers still support a version of the 'multiregional' hypothesis, arguing that the anatomical features of modern humans arose in geographically widespread hominid populations throughout the Pleistocene epoch (which lasted from around 1.8 million to some 12,000 years ago). But most now espouse a version of the 'out of Africa' model, although there are differences of opinion over the complexity of the processes of origin and dispersal, and over the amount of mixing that might subsequently have occurred with archaic (non-modern) humans outside of Africa. Within Africa, uncertainties still surround the mode of modern human evolution — whether it proceeded in a gradual and steady manner or in fits and starts (punctuational evolution). Other questions concern the relationship between genetic, morphological and behavioural changes, and the precise region, or regions, of origin.

    For instance, possible early H. sapiens fossils, dating from about 260,000 to 130,000 years ago, are scattered across Africa at sites such as Florisbad (South Africa), Ngaloba (Tanzania), Eliye Springs and Guomde (Kenya), Omo Kibish (Ethiopia), Singa (Sudan) and Jebel Irhoud (Morocco). But the best dated of these finds, from Florisbad and Singa, are problematic because of incompleteness and, in the latter case, evidence of disease. Meanwhile, the more complete or diagnostically modern specimens suffer from chronological uncertainties. So the most securely dated and complete early fossils that unequivocally share an anatomical pattern with today's H. sapiens are actually from Israel, rather than Africa. These are the partial skeletons from Skhul and Qafzeh, dating from around 115,000 years ago. Their presence in the Levant is usually explained by a range expansion from ancestral African populations, such as those sampled at Omo Kibish or Jebel Irhoud, around 125,000 years ago.

    The new cranial material from Herto, Ethiopia — described by White and colleagues — adds significantly to our understanding of early H. sapiens evolution in Africa. The fossils are complete enough to show a suite of modern human characters, and are well constrained by argon-isotope dating to about 160,000 years ago. Three individuals are represented by separate fossils: a nearly complete adult cranium (skull parts excluding the lower jaw), a less complete juvenile cranium, and some robust cranial fragments from another adult. All display evidence of human modification, such as cut marks, considered to represent mortuary practices rather than cannibalism. Associated layers of sediment produced evidence of the butchery of large mammals such as hippopotamuses and bovines, as well as assemblages of artefacts showing an interesting combination of Middle Stone Age and late Acheulean technology.

    The morphology of the most complete of these three fossils helps to clarify the pattern of early H. sapiens evolution in Africa, as it shows an interesting combination of features from archaic, early modern and recent humans. The cranium is very large, but once the size is standardized, it shares with ancient African crania a wide interorbital breadth (the distance between the orbits of the eyes), anteriorly placed teeth, and a short occipital (the bone at the rear of the braincase). It also has a wide upper face and moderately domed forehead, as do the Skhul and Qafzeh fossils. Its low nose and face and flat midface are more widely shared early H. sapiens features, whereas other characteristics, such as its globular braincase, are typically modern. In the angulation and transverse ridge of the occipital, there is also an intriguing resemblance to fossils from sites such as Elandsfontein (South Africa) and Broken Hill (Zambia) that are often assigned to H. heidelbergensis or H. rhodesiensis. This may provide a clue to the individual's ancestors. But overall, the fossil seems closest in morphology to particular crania from Jebel Irhoud, Omo Kibish and Qafzeh.

    So White and colleagues' findings provide a plausible link back to more ancient African fossils, and forward to Levantine samples. They also raise questions about the overall pattern of modern human origins in Africa. Because of Africa's great area and still limited fossil record, it is uncertain whether the pattern of H. sapiens evolution there was essentially continent-wide, or was a more localized — and perhaps punctuational — process. The Herto finds shift the focus once again to East Africa. It seems from these crania and from possibly contemporaneous fossils, such as those at Ngaloba, Singa and Eliye Springs, that human populations of this era showed a great deal of anatomical variation. So, did the early modern morphology spread outwards from East Africa, perhaps gradually more archaic forms? Or could there have been an African version of multiregionalism, with modern morphology coalescing from various populations across the continent? Only better samples and better dating of the African fossil record will help resolve these questions.

    And what of the taxonomic status of the new finds? White and colleagues propose that, although measurements of the most complete fossil differentiate it from geologically 'recent' (that is, post-Pleistocene) H. sapiens, there is sufficient evidence to assign the material to this species overall, while naming a new subspecies, idaltu. However, in my opinion, the distinctive features described for H. sapiens idaltu might not be so unusual, and could probably be found in late Pleistocene samples from regions such as Australasia.

    Do the Herto fossils represent 'modern' H. sapiens? There is an ongoing debate about the concept of modernity, in terms of both morphological and behavioural characteristics. Nevertheless, despite the presence of some primitive features, there seems to be enough morphological evidence to regard the Herto material as the oldest definite record of what we currently think of as modern H. sapiens. The fact that the geological age of these fossils is close to some estimates obtained by genetic analyses for the origin of modern human variation only heightens their importance.

  • rocketman
    rocketman

    The latest issue of Scientific American is devoted entirely to discussion on fossil and other evidence of human evolution.

  • asleif_dufansdottir
    asleif_dufansdottir

    Just a note on an earlier comment...When neanderthal skeletons were first discovered over 100 yrs ago, one of the first ones was an older man who (medical professionals later explained) was actually deformed by arthritis...the "gnarled, stooped ape man" image that people have of them is incorrect and actually caused by that early misunderstanding.

  • willy_think
    willy_think

    "Human" is an arbitrary distinction based on physical traits enough for the same traits and your human, enough different traits and you are not human. The definition may be too narrow.

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