Elders will be here in 10 minutes...pray for me

by Jacqueline 73 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Scully

  Jacqueline:

  Thanks for the suggestion, but honesty is a big part of success in our marriage. I can't lie to him and tell him that I have other arrangements when I don't. So, I am pretty much limited to flat out refusal of attending, I can spend theevening in our bed watching televiosion while he has study with Elders....or attend and grit my teeth and live through the damn thing.

  I have already inform my husband I have no interest in going to meetings anymore and he seems to accept that....maybe I can use that...I have no interest in attending next Thurs. night study.

  I didn't say you had to lie to your husband. My suggestion was that you make other plans for yourself, inform him of them (just like he made plans to have the elders visit, and then informed you of those plans after he'd gone and made them).

  Frankly, I think he was rather inconsiderate to invite the elders to come back, knowing how you feel about not attending meetings anymore. He's going to think it's inconsiderate of you to abandon him when he invited the elders to come and visit. Turn about is fair play, in my books. If he gets upset about it, you can say "Well, I honestly told you I do not wish to go to meetings nor do I wish to meet with the elders. It's inconsiderate of you to disregard my feelings and invite them to come and meet with US anyway. I am making other plans so that I do not have to be subjected to their presence. If you don't want me going out on Thursday night, call them up and cancel the meeting." Period.

  It IS your house too, isn't it?? You are free to come and go if you want or make plans with friends, aren't you?? Don't let him trap you into this kind of thing. Once you let it start, it isn't going to stop. They'll keep hounding you because he will allow them to. He should be sticking up for you, not making it easy for them to come into your house, or making you hide out in the bedroom or basement.

  Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. You shouldn't have to hide out in your own house. And your husband should respect and love you enough to uninvite them on Thursday. He's deliberately disregarding your feelings if he doesn't do that.

  Love, Scully
• 

  Jacqueline

  I talked with my husband...and he said that it is fine if I would rather not be a participant in the study Thurs. night. He said that he will tell the Elders tomorrow during service. He also said that "Nothing will destroy a Witness more than to know, the reason a study has left is not because of not believing the beliefs, or the blood issue...but rather than because of the lack of love in the congregation."

  I can't talk more...as he is sittinghere at the table with me writing a letter to his sister! Gotta jam before I get caught!
• 

  somebody

  Hello again, Jacqueline

  You are in a tough spot but it doesn't have to be tough. If I were you, I'd think about questions you have for elders and ask your husband if he can call the elders and make it a question and answer session instead of studying a book. And after your questions are all answered, which may take more than one night, and I mean REALLY answered and not dodged or answered by wait on Jehovah, you can ask to study chapters of The Greatest Man Who Ever Lived book, seeing how its a major claim of Jehovahs Witnesses that they follow CLOSELY in Jesus footsteps ( Ill tell you later what chapters I would want to study with the elders ). I'd inform your husband that you want to tape the session so you can listen to it again to understand more or listen to the answers to your questions again after they leave to understand better and completely. I would tell my husband if I were you that when I make the SERIOUS decision to be baptized, I want to be a baptized disciple of Jesus as stated in the bible, and not a baptized publisher of any incorporated printing company or in association with any organization of men. Also I'd tell them that when I do get baptized, I want to be baptized in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as the Bible says and not in the name of the Father, the Son, and in association with an organization. Ask the elders what they say to a person right before they dunk them under water. Or ask your husband, because he probably doesnt know that the baptisms were changed years ago. Demand that you want to know and have the right to know what they say seeing how you consider baptism a very important decision to make with God.

  Studying with the elders is to your advantage right now. I know it will be very hard, but if you can choose what to study, you can perhaps help open your husbands eyes a little bit. Slowly, but surely. You and your husband love each other, I can see that by what youve shared with us thus far. Please dont allow the elders to destroy the love you both have for each other. If your husband ends up becoming very active again, that could very well happen. Ill end here for now with a parable Jesus used in Luke 18:10-14

  10 Two men went up into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and began to pray these things to himself, O God, I thank you I am not as the rest of men, extortioners, unrighteous, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week, I give the tenth of all things I acquire. 13 But the tax collector standing at a distance was not willing even to raise his eyes heavenward, but kept beating his breast, saying, O God, be gracious to me a sinner. 14 I tell YOU , This man went down to his home proved more righteous than that man; because everyone that exalts himself will be humiliated, but he that humbles himself will be exalted.

  By attending meetings as long as you have, who represents the Jehovahs Witness attitude?

  The Pharisee. or the tax collector?

  You dont have to answer here. Its just something for you to think about personally and answer the question to yourself, in your heart.

  You have a whole week to talk to your husband about the way you feel, before the elders return to YOU AND YOUR HUSBANDS HOME. Please dont let men come between the love and honesty you and your husband share with each other as husband and wife and best friends. And try not to let your frustration and pain from the elders or JWs get between the two of you either.

  Try to remain calm. Like I said, I know that is a hell of a lot easier said than done! Stay strong my friend. ((((((((((((((Jacqueline and husband)))))))))

  peace to you,

  gwen

  P.S. I agree with johnny cip when he said:

  they will TWIST and use the name of Jehovah to GLORIFY THE WT
• 

  Jacqueline

  Somebody,

  Thanks for the replies. I read your husband's replies on my other post, he loves you dearly. I really do not have any "questions" at the moment, regarding the religion. I am pretty well confident that I no longer desire to be part of a corrupt organization that takes peoples consciences and turns them into spiritual police. Why personally question their beliefs if I cannot accept how they treat me. I do want to question their beliefe, only to show my husband, in hopes that he will understand that they are not who they claim to be. He is devout, but not active...does that make sense?

  I told my husband last night, "You know, everyone in the organization is always searching for the negativity in others...what mistakes someone may have done in the past, present, and possible future, then they capitalize on those mistakes. Even someone's intentions are mistaken."

  The JW's capitalize on rumors...not only are they rumors, but the actions are diseceted first by severity of the action, then reprecussions of the actions, and somehow....whatever mistakes one does...it always seems to be explained that because of your one mistake, you have affected the entire congregation, as in the following personal experience...

  Before I met my current husband, I was previously married. We divorced. So...not only was I a non-JW marrying a JW...I was previously divorced, with two children.

  My JW husband and I got married and as I stated prior, my husband's entire JW family attended the wedding, even though they did not approve. (Made for interesting wedding...his side all JW's; a brother who is an Elder, another brother who is a Ministerial Servant, a sister who is a Pioneer, and another brother who is disfellowshipped. Then my entire side was "worldly", as I had no JW friends) :) It was a beautiful outdoor wedding (obviously by the circumstances...a KH was out of the question!) married by a justice of the peace (obviously by the circumstances....even his Elder brother was out of the question.) The wedding went off without a hitch, everyone playing football and the kids went swimming in the pond all afternoon. Mixing JW's, ex-Jw, and "worldly"....hmmmm, I have to say that I somehow organized the day without anyone feeling out of place. (It was the first time that the family had gotten together since their mother's funeral)

  BIG MISTAKE!!!!! Three months later, out of the blue one evening....My Brother-in-law, the MS, calls and asks my husband, "What scriptural reasons did Jacqueline get a divorce from her previous husband." My husband told his brother that I had no scriptural reason for divorcing my previous husband, but that we had understood through opur research that since I divorced my husband several years prior to studying, that I could not be held accountable for my actions prior to knowing the Truth. Everyone knew I was divorced...I had two children and I never hid the fact that I divorced the man. Well, my MS brother-in-law did not accept that answer. He got very verbal with my husband over the phone and hung up. I felt aweful, knowing that because of my prior actions before meeting my husband, I had now caused a problem between my husband and his brother. My husband reassured me that I was no way my fault.

  The next day we received an e-mail from his MS brother, stating that since I did not tell anyone that my divorce was unscriptural, my husband and I betrayed everyone who attended the wedding, and compromised each and everyone's personal relationship with Jehovah. He said that he would have to inform the Elders at his Hall and that he would more than likely lose all of his privledges. He demanded that we go to our Elders and tell them of our "adultress marriage". He was furious that we invited him and the rest of his family to participate in an "adultress marriage." Ironically...not one other JW who attended the wedding, ever said anything. My husband called his other brother, which is an Elder,and he really did not believe that it was a big an issue as what their brother was making out of it. We went to our Elders inquiring of our marriage, and after several weeks, they came back to us, stating that our marriage is not an adulteress one, and that we are ok, in the eyes of the society. WHEW!! Close one!

  Well...the MS brother never lost his priveledges, and we never did know if he even went to his Elders regarding the issue. After a few months of "cooling off", amends were made.

  Gwen, thanks for listening. Giving you a little more info at a time. Yes, I would be greatly interested in the study of the Greatest Man who ever lived. We have a pretty complete JW library and I have the '99 CD...please tell me any info where I can show my husband their discrpenacies or anything...using their own literature and books!! THANK YOU!
• 

  Jacqueline

  HUGE QUESTION!!!

  My husband and I are just onthe verge of starting a debate. I have found in a couple of WT articles that only baptized believers have an unrestricted privilege to prayer. That prayer is restricted priviledge. So, basically, as an unbaptized person, if I do not want to join the JW's and get baptized....I will not be heard in prayer.

  Now the question: Where can I find in the Bible that baptism is or is not a requirement to be heard in prayer or to be saved eternally?
• 

  Mulan

  Good grief. That's a new one on me. They have a hell of a lot of nerve saying that to you. Very loving, aren't they?
• 

  zev

  From the May 15, 1990 Watchtower, the governing body bellowed:

  in paragraph 10....

  Like Cornelius, anyone today progressing toward dedication may be encouraged to pray. But an individual who is insincere about studying the Scriptures, does not know the divine requirements for prayer, and has not yet displayed an attitude pleasing to God cannot be said to fear Jehovah, have faith, or be earnestly seeking him. Such a person is not in position to offer prayers acceptable to God.

  in paragraph 11 ....

  Some who were at one time progressing toward dedication later may seem to be holding back. If they do not have enough love for God in their heart to make an unreserved dedication to him, they ought to ask themselves whether they still have the wonderful privilege of prayer. Apparently not, because those approaching God must be earnestly seeking him and also righteousness and meekness. (Zephaniah 2:3) Everyone who really fears Jehovah is a believer who makes a dedication to God and symbolizes it by getting baptized. (Acts 8:13; 18:8) And only baptized believers have an unrestricted privilege of approaching the King Eternal in prayer.

  this is what the watchtower has bellowed forth.

  what does the bible say?

  here are some scriptures for you.

  *** Rbi8 Romans 6:23 *** 23 For the wages sin pays is death, but the gift God gives is everlasting life by Christ Jesus our Lord.

  *** Rbi8 Revelation 2:10 *** 10 Do not be afraid of the things you are about to suffer. Look! The Devil will keep on throwing some of YOU into prison that YOU may be fully put to the test, and that YOU may have tribulation ten days. Prove yourself faithful even to death, and I will give you the crown of life.

  *** Rbi8 Matthew 10:21-22 *** 22 And YOU will be objects of hatred by all people on account of my name; but he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

  Whose name? Jesus? Or Jehovah?

  *** Rbi8 John 5:24 *** 24 Most truly I say to YOU , He that hears my word and believes him that sent me has everlasting life, and he does not come into judgment but has passed over from death to life.

  *** Rbi8 Matthew 19:25-26 *** 25 When the disciples heard that, they expressed very great surprise, saying: Who really can be saved? 26 Looking them in the face, Jesus said to them: With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.

  *** Rbi8 Matthew 24:13 *** 13 But he that has endured to the end is the one that will be saved.

  *** Rbi8 Acts 10:1-8 *** Now in Caesare'a there was a certain man named Cornelius, an army officer of the Italian band, as it was called, 2 a devout man and one fearing God together with all his household, and he made many gifts of mercy to the people and made supplication to God continually. 3 Just about the ninth hour of the day he saw plainly in a vision an angel of God come in to him and say to him: Cornelius! 4 The man gazed at him and, becoming frightened, said: What is it, Lord? He said to him: Your prayers and gifts of mercy have ascended as a remembrance before God.

  24 On the day after that he entered into Caesare'a. Cornelius, of course, was expecting them and had called together his relatives and intimate friends. 25 As Peter entered, Cornelius met him, fell down at his feet and did obeisance to him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying: Rise; I myself am also a man. 27 And as he conversed with him he went in and found many people assembled, 28 and he said to them: Y OU well know how unlawful it is for a Jew to join himself to or approach a man of another race; and yet God has shown me I should call no man defiled or unclean. 29 Hence I came, really without objection, when I was sent for. Therefore I inquire the reason that YOU have sent for me.

  30 Accordingly Cornelius said: Four days ago counting from this hour I was praying in my house at the ninth hour, when, look! a man in bright raiment stood before me 31 and said, Cornelius, your prayer has been favorably heard and your gifts of mercy have been remembered before God.

  Note that this was ALL BEFORE Cornelius was baptized.
• 

  Robdar

  Jehovah is not god's name.

  6 is right. Fred is god's name.

  Robyn
• 

  johnny cip

  hi jackie; the more i read of your story , the more sick i get... you have already let these wt zombies control you, they have already beating you.... and they will not stop till you stop it!!!!!!!!!!! you are playing their game and they love it... they are kicking you all over the place... don't be a fool STOP IT NOW..... DON'T LET THEM INTO YOUR MIND.... just put them off at all costs... i truth , you don't know enough to keep them from killing your mariage... they will only be happy when they get you as a jw or kill you.... end of the story, be strong like my mother all 5 of her children never became jw's.. because she let us know the wt is full of shit, when we were kids,,, now i blast my dad when he tries to bull his grandchildren, and it's works i've got 6 and 7 year olds now saying that the jw;s god lives in brooklyn.... it is simple don't talk to them, at all ,,,,, by the way wenesday gave some good advise on the baptian ... take over your life today , only you know if you are a good or bad person and jesus knows tooooo!!!!!!!!! i know you don't like my tactics, but it is the only way to get them from putting the yoke of the wt on you..... i see it different from many here / i give the jw's NO QUARTER.... only jesus can judge your heart,,, email me any time.........john
• 

  Scully

  Hi Jacqueline:

  Now the question: Where can I find in the Bible that baptism is or is not a requirement to be heard in prayer or to be saved eternally?

  I guess if that were the case, then all those experiences in the WT and Awake mags - of people having the JWs come to their door after praying to find God are a bunch of bullpucky. They weren't baptized or associated with JWs..... so their prayers would have been restricted, right?? Talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it too....

  Love, Scully