Hypothetical Question on Adultery

by yrs2long 12 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • yrs2long
    yrs2long

    A sister arrives home early to find her husband in bed having sex with a woman unknown to her. The sister, although lacking any evidence, reports the matter to the elders, who confront the husband. The husband denies any fornication.

    Is the marriage vow considered broken by Jehovah? Understandably, it will require two witnesses to get the elders to act against the brother. However, given that the woman was witness to the event, SHE knows that adultery has taken place. According to WT doctrine, is the sister scripturally free to divorce and remarry?

    Also, if the brothers don't accept the woman's word as sufficient for divorce and the woman continues to cohabit, would she be required and/or can she be disciplined by the brothers for failing from that point to render the marriage due?

    Also, consider if the sister, unable to divorce, remains with the fornicating husband and does have sex with him. If the brother later feels remorse and confesses to the brothers about the adultery, does the sister's sexual acquiescence constitute forgiveness on her part due to her having had sex when she KNEW he had fornicated?

    Has any of this been discussed at length in any of the society's literature? Does anyone know of any similar situations?

  • Prisca
    Prisca
    does the sister's sexual acquiescence constitute forgiveness on her part due to her having had sex when she KNEW he had fornicated?

    I know that the answer to this is "yes" (as per the WTS) as I remember reading that in a Watchtower several years ago. It was in an older copy of the WT, but unfortuately my library is only 10yrs old. Hopefully someone who has access to the WT CD rom might be able to get the exact quote for you.

  • Utopian_Raindrops
    Utopian_Raindrops

    Yrs2long,

    Ouch,

    You hit too close to home.

    Some of this I have been through.

    If I had my WT cd on hand I actually would show you their spin on it.

    BUT, I can tell you what I know.

    You pointed out, The sister, although lacking any evidence, reports the matter to the elders, who confront the husband. The husband denies any fornication.

    Believe it or not all she has to do is turn in a letter saying SHE SAW this. What they are worried of is if the elders are responsible. With her letter of VEIWING The Sin They no longer need his word. She saw it. She is a sister. That is the end. She can divorce and remarry. Now of course there are elders who are old boys club reminisant but, she has witnessed it. So that should be the end of matters. No matter what the grounds of divorce as long as they retain her letter of 1 st hand witness they should have no problems.

    You asked, Is the marriage vow considered broken by Jehovah? She witnessed it and Jehovah is all knowing and seeing so you answered yourself. Jehovah has nothing to do with the traditions or laws of imperfect men. If you saw it then he took note long before you walked in! In that case who cares what the bros say anyway? You know If your heart is broken beyond repair Jah is on your side.

    Something you stated, Understandably, it will require two witnesses to get the elders to act against the brother. However, given that the woman was witness to the event, SHE knows that adultery has taken place. Even the elders and the Org know this to be true. If your elders dont seem to just do a search on the Cd . Its there. Even if you dont witness it and your husband just confesses it you can divorce. Even if he retracts his confession later you may divorce and turn in a letter that he confessed. What I remember from my research at that time is a guilty spouse may after confession may not want to loose his family and retract so it is up to you the innocent party to remain strong and turn in a letter to you elders stating what was confessed. As odd as it may seem to us, the GB is worried they may some how be blamed by Jah for our unclean conduct. So they need a letter from us imperfect humans to make things clear between Jehovah and them about all our dirty little deeds.

    Then they didnt support maybe us throwing out our adulterous, disease breeding spouses!

    You further probed, According to WT doctrine, is the sister scriptural free to divorce and remarry? As long as you turn in the letter of the sinning spouses adultery that makes it so your divorced spouse cant blame them and sue them for tearing apart his familyof course!

    Another of your questions, if the brothers don't accept the woman's word as sufficient for divorce and the woman continues to cohabit, would she be required and/or can she be disciplined by the brothers for failing from that point to render the marriage due? Lets be honest. The Brothers do as they please and manipulate scripture and WT Dogma as they please. They May diss whom the choose. If you go as far as divorce you must be clear in your heart , mind and conscience that it is the right thing and move ahead. If they diss you so what. As My Mom Who Hates Me Says, They Are Imperfect Men. They Are Bound To Reinstate You One year Or Another. You must do what is right for you and your fam screw the elders. Its all between you and Jah.

    You went on to a rediculas scenario that could only happen to JWs because the elders dropped the ball and you were too afraid to move ahead with out their ok. You mapped out for us, consider if the sister, unable to divorce, remains with the fornicating husband and does have sex with him. If the brother later feels remorse and confesses to the brothers about the adultery, does the sister's sexual acquiescence constitute forgiveness on her part due to her having had sex when she KNEW he had fornicated Well at this point if you are like me you are screwed. But if you think for your self and remember God is love. You Divorce the Prick and remember that one-year or another the elders (who are imperfect) will reinstate you. Or better yet you realize Jehovah and Jesus dont expect perfection from you and this bloody wanker is going to bring you to the point of murdering him and chopping him up into little pieces which would be a worse sin and so you give the WTBS the 2 finger salute(or one if your from the USA) and divorce the fascist pig! You can then go on to marry Fernando the wealthy Matador from Spain spending all your days making love, drinking wine,and raising fat children till Jehovahs new system in which you and Fernando will be Princes Who just you presence will be like drinking cool water. The closed-minded elders job in the new system will be out house sanitation and of course picking up after you, Fernando and all the sheep like ones who come before you to acquire your sage advice.

    Just my 2 cents,

    Hope you semi-Amused.

    Agape,

    Utopian_Raindrops

    P.S. Yes I have been through some of this but, at this time in my life I realize only Jehovah and Jesus count and the elders *&^%$*@(&^$&*#(9@(

  • minimus
    minimus

    Simple formula to answer question: It's up to the elders......If they believe you, everything's OK. If they don't believe what YOU SAW, and you end the relationship and remarry, YOU are an adulteress. You will be disfellowshipped.....Incidentally, here's the best example of why the 2 Witness rule is NOT needed!!!

  • Farkel
    Farkel

    : Believe it or not all she has to do is turn in a letter saying SHE SAW this. What they are worried of is if the elders are responsible. With her letter of VEIWING The Sin They no longer need his word. She saw it. She is a sister. That is the end. She can divorce and remarry. Now of course there are elders who are old boys club reminisant but, she has witnessed it. So that should be the end of matters. No matter what the grounds of divorce as long as they retain her letter of 1 st hand witness they should have no problems.

    Of course, the irony in this is evident. If a girl of say, 12 years of age goes to the Elders and not only says she SAW a dub raping her, but SHE was the one who was raped by him, they would demand two witnesses or punish her for talking to anyone else about it.

    The hypocrisy of this and the duplicity of the Watchtower in its "two witnesses" rule shows me they have REASON to cover up child-rape and that there is nothing Bible-Based(tm) about this policy. I'm becoming increasingly convinced that there are child-molesters in the Watchtower leadership who will be in deep doo-doo should they stop punishing people who report molesters. I can see no other logical reason why, despite all the bad press and lawsuits, they continue to make it nearly impossible to bring child rapists to justice. I say this because their two witnesses rule does not apply in a single-party witnessed adultery, but DOES apply in a witnessed single-party molestation.

    Farkel

  • Hmmm
    Hmmm

    Yrs,

    You're seeing a Spanish matador named Fernando? I had no idea!

    U_R It sounds like the letter-writing thing worked for you (whatever parts of that hypothetical applied to you) and for that I'm glad. I used to listen with curiosity (and a little typical JW superiority) to tales of young JW couples trapped in horrible marriages, but unable to free themselves because of silly, unfathomable, archaic rules. I remember a brother in his 40s at a neighboring hall. He did not have a lot going for him, but was obviously madly in love with a sister there. The problem was that his ex-wife attended another congregation that met in the same hall. Neither of them were willing to commit adultery, so both of them were trapped, unable to remarry. They both might as well have worn a huge scarlet D on their clothes

    However, I tend to agree with Minimus. In general, the elders will do what they want to do. If they like you, they'll believe you. Usually this gives the cheating man a huge advantage in the patriarchal/mysoginistic WTBTS.

  • yrs2long
    yrs2long

    Had a moment to pop in from work. Thanks for responding. Are you guys sure there is a first person account letter policy in place for such a situation? I've never heard of such a thing and apparently the jw at work who I was discussing this situation with hasn't either. Her reply was to wait upon Jehovah to reveal the wrongdoing and I disagreed with her response, not seeing the necessity of waiting. Is this policy regional?

    Thanks for your helpful responses as I will continue my discussion with her this evening when most of the staff are gone.

    Utopian_raindrops, can I email you?

  • Gizmo
    Gizmo

    Is the marriage vow considered broken by Jehovah?

    Absolutely!

    Understandably, it will require two witnesses to get the elders to act against the brother. However, given that the woman was witness to the event, SHE knows that adultery has taken place. According to WT doctrine, is the sister scripturally free to divorce and remarry?

    Scriptually definately! In the Elders eyes maybe not, but who cares what they think, you don't worry about them you worry what God thinks!

    Also, if the brothers don't accept the woman's word as sufficient for divorce and the woman continues to cohabit, would she be required and/or can she be disciplined by the brothers for failing from that point to render the marriage due?

    If the Husband reports it, she can be counseled. Staying with the partner may be considered by the elders not only as an indication that the sister was lying about the adultery, but if later found that in fact she was telling the truth about the adultery, as an act of forgiving the husband on the part of the wife. A bit of a catch 22.

    Also, consider if the sister, unable to divorce, remains with the fornicating husband and does have sex with him. If the brother later feels remorse and confesses to the brothers about the adultery, does the sister's sexual acquiescence constitute forgiveness on her part due to her having had sex when she KNEW he had fornicated?

    See above but in short Yes.

    Has any of this been discussed at length in any of the society's literature? Does anyone know of any similar situations?

    There would be many articles on this very subject, in watchtowers and I believe from memory the Family Book talks about it some.
  • Utopian_Raindrops
    Utopian_Raindrops

    Yrs2long,

    When youre a Dub to get justice from the elders you have to be educated like a lawyer or at least have the research skills of a paralegal.

    I was in a very destructive marriage for many years because of WT policy. Then the WT received so many lawsuits from battered wives that they changed policy quietly.

    I remarried for a short time to a brother. He thought he knew WT policy and could do as he pleased. He threatened my children and disrespected me.

    I was married to him longer then I would have liked but with A LOT of research I found the information I needed to protect my children and me. Still and all my ex wrote the letter and not me because MY elders required one from him. (More evidence that they do as they please) If he had not written it though or if they choose not to be satisfied with his letter (as he did not put the details they asked for the pervs) I was prepared with and article that stated I could write a letter of HIS confession to me. This was not even about actually viewing the sin. So eyewitness account should be even more admissible!

    Of course you CAN e-mail me and I found my WT cd and am starting my search ASP!

    I hope your friend can receive justice soon.

    Hey, maybe we should start a Theocratic Legal Services for down trodden JWs.

    Hmmm: Unfortunately I am not seeing a Spanish matador Named Fernando. When I was a little girl I had a big crush on an OLDER boy named Fernando. I still have pics of him, all the kids and me from the neighborhood. He was a hottie!

    Well Ciao 4 Now!

    Agape,

    Utopian_Raindrops

  • Utopian_Raindrops
    Utopian_Raindrops

    Farkel,

    By the way as you ALREADY know.you are ABSOLUTLEY RIGHT!

    It is all about not getting sued! Plane and simple.

    I had an Old Pioneer brother tell me the Society was getting a lot of law suits an they could not diss or discipline a pedophile based on one childs testimony. If they did the Perv could turn around and SUE the WTBS for defamation of character! Now you wouldnt want that would we!!

    Back then he told me if another child came forward they could take action and the police do the same thing if there is no physical evidence.

    I also think and so does anyone I speak with about this as you do, I'm becoming increasingly convinced that there are child-molesters in the Watchtower leadership who will be in deep doo-doo should they stop punishing people who report molesters. I can see no other logical reason

    This is a fact! Why else as you say? They are intoxicated with power and Pedophilia is a power crime! I am hoping they get reveled soon. But in the mean time we have to wait. The only hope is if there is more then one victim to come forward about this crime being done to them by GB members (member). Of course that wont help the R & F, as they will just take it as persecution. To really help everyone someone from the inside close to GB members who could some how get a confession or witnessed this fact! That would help actually bring them down!

    On that day we can all through a Luau my friends!!http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=43009&site=3

    My 2 cents...no refunds

    ciao 4 now,

    U_R

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