Greg Stafford --- Update

by ExpandedMind 25 Replies latest jw friends

  • ExpandedMind

    Good Morning!

    I found this post on Channel C and thought I'd share it with those of you who are interested.

    Happy New Year to all of you!


    "The mind, once expanded to the dimensions of larger ideas, never returns to its original size." --- Oliver Wendell Holmes

    Posted by GregStafford on Thu - Jan 2 - 01:01am:

    In Reply to: Stafford's status with Watchtower Org? posted by RichS45 on Wed - Jan 1 - 2:33pm:

    Hello, Rich:

    First off, if you are the same Rich who emailed me recently, I promise to write back soon. I try to get to my emails in the order that I receive them and I'm a bit backed up right now. (As I'm sure most of us are!)

    I am unaware of any official response from the brothers at Bethel, but some of my former JW apologist friends have not received my book with open arms. It's interesting, as I've told several other people, some of my Witness friends who I thought would be open-minded and at least give the material a fair and balanced reading did not, while many Witnesses who I thought would be closed to some of the material were surprisingly open about it, even expressing similar views to me in private! (Just goes to show you how easily we can misread people!)

    However, one person in particular, Hal Flemings, has emailed many Witnesses and given them negative and slanted information about what I wrote. From the emails I have been given, it's as if Hal never even read the entire book. I have offered an open discussion of the issues with Flemings, and we exchanged a couple of emails, but he has been silent for several months since I last wrote to him about issues concerning our organization as a whole and the blood policy in particular. But just last week I found out that Flemings will not be inviting me or one other brother to an annual Witness gathering where scholarly material is exchanged, and he is now organizing this coming year's meeting around topics having to do with my book. I find it very disturbing that he will not respond to me directly, yet he will organize private discussions about the same topics when I am not there to offer a reply or balance out the discussion. I am very disappointed in the Flemings-type people in our organization, people who could be forces for positive change but who instead choose to defend the traditions of the organization in what appears to me to be an act of self-preservation. Nevertheless, I am hopeful that others in the organization will stand up for what's right when the circumstances are right.

    There are other events that have recently taken place that only a few others know about and that I am not prepared to make public, but as events unfold we'll see what transpires and if there is something meaningful to relate I will be sure to share it with those who are interested. Having said that, I have not been disfellowshipped nor have I disassociated myself from the organization.

    I have reason to believe that at one time Jehovah did in fact use this organization to highlight important truths in his Word, such as his name and identity, but that somewhere along the line the organization was taken over by men who do not have as their primary goal the revealing of Bible truth in a Christ-like manner. I believe that, as has happened with so many other well-intentioned Christian groups (even many first century followers of Christ), imperfection and sin have been allowed to grow unchecked and ultimately they have infected the organization so that it has run far off course. If it is Jehovah's will to remove those in the organization who are allowing false teachings and heavy-handed governance of his people to flourish then I will be on the look for the changes. In the meantime I will continue speaking out against that which tarnishes God's name and Word and let matters run their course. If Jehovah establishes some other group that can carry on the work of proclaiming his name and kingdom apart from false teachings and destructive policies, then I will look for it. Otherwise I, like so many others of the past and present, will remain content with the truths of God's Word as he has preserved them, sharing them with whoever wants to hear them.

    In this light, I plan on moving forward with my studies and I will continue to present what I hope will be considered balanced and accurate research on important topics relevant to the Watchtower Society and Bible studies in general. I will be releasing a book devoted to the history, translation and meaning of John 8:58 later this year, and there is already an outline being worked up for a book dedicated to the Watchtower's blood policy problem. This second book could very well be ready by the end of this year or the beginning of 2004.

    Best regards,
    Greg Stafford

  • Francois

    How complete then, is the JW likeness to that which they themselves hate and despise.

    Obviously, a God-concept named Jehovah had a relationship with the ancient Hebrews. They, however, could not keep up their end, let themselves stagnate in place and eventuallly lost the regard of their own Diety. Haven't the JWs done the same? Become stiff-necked, arrogant, hypocritical? Don't you become just like that which you oppose? Is there any difference between a proton and an anti-proton? So went the Hebrews; so go the JWs. So dreary. So predictable.


    Edited by - francois on 2 January 2003 9:22:45

  • Cygnus

    Good for Greg.

  • ISP

    Greg is out of it......the WTS could DF him or consider him DA'd on the strength of that. He still has a belief system which is cool if you can put up with it.


  • LovesDubs

    Um...did you get his permission to publish this ?

    I havent read Gregs works to date...but I remember the great hoopla when they came out. And the massive amounts of discussion. I felt he was changing tho...going from Nazi apologist to seeing through this own research and the reaction from the JWs to his books, that things were wrong, so very wrong, in this organization. The same thing happened to Ray doing what he thought was Gods work, writing and researching for the Society, he found glaring faith threatening errors in the doctrines. If those clowns are convening meetings and not including Greg but will be discussing his points, his disassociation seems inevitable. But...he wont go voluntarily, which nobody should any more. Why play into their hands? You go Greg. Follow the Spirit, and not men!

  • IslandWoman

    I will be releasing a book devoted to the history, translation and meaning of John 8:58 later this year,

    I look forward to reading your book on John 8:58. Jesus usually did not answer his opposers in a direct manner in order to teach them some truth, instead he answered his opposers in ways that would confound them. I think it is likely John 8:58 is also not meant to teach a truth but to rather confound those who were not looking for truth in the first place, his opposers.

    Again, I look forward to your book.


  • Carmel

    "scholarly material exchanged..."? Wow, I thought the Borg didn't allow the witlesses to read anything written or produced by non-dubbies!

    Learn sompun new every day.


  • AlanF

    Greg is going through exactly the same wringer that so many of us went through: a gradual realization that WTS leaders were not teaching truth, that they refused to discuss anything with anyone (you just had to accept the content of the written publications), that they were in fact afraid to discuss problems with a knowledgeable critic, and that they will strike out violently against anyone they can who dares to question their self-proclaimed authority.

    I feel sorry for Greg. At heart he's a very good man who has been deceived, and now wants to set things right amidst opposition from his deceivers.


  • JosephMalik

    I think it is likely John 8:58 is also not meant to teach a truth

    Island Woman,

    Of course it was and a profound one at that. What it teaches is the pre-human existence of Christ before Abraham. We also know that Jesus was well aware of it and the details surrounding His birth. When you see the expression "Verily, verlly", or "Truly, truly" then a profound truth or statement always follows.

    58 KJV Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

    58 NAS95 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham {1} was born, {A} I am." {1) Lit came into being}

    But this truth has been so badly mauled and mis-applied that its true purpose has been lost for many.


  • Dogpatch

    I remember a former Circuit Overseer by the name of Fred Fredean who was asked to come to Bethel, and was assigned to the pressroom to work with Tom Cabeen, myself and others who eventually left Bethel because were we studying the Bible privately and realizing that the Governing Body was not teaching the truth about the Bible, salvation and freedom.

    From the first, Fred was a whiner about the Society. Every day he would bitch and moan about some policy or hardhead in charge. The as a light switch turns on the light and the fearful scramble, Fred suddenly became a "yes" man to everything the Society did, turning in apostates, etc.

    Sounds like Hal Flemings is the hard-core good ol' boy type as well. So sad. You go, Greg!

    Randy Watters

    Net Soup!

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