No Invalid Baptisms

by metatron 11 Replies latest jw friends

  • metatron

    From what I gather at the Service Dept., there is no such thing as
    an invalid baptism. They defined it out of existence. A secondary
    WT article referred to this about a year ago - if you go thru
    with being dunked and don't tell people right away that it ain't
    real - the baptism is valid and you are as liable to be df'd as the

    So, no matter what the fraud involved by inept elders who approved
    somebody - or what gross immorality they were involved in at the
    moment of baptism - or how compelled or beaten a kid may be -
    it's a valid baptism.

    How expedient. How strange that the Society, with all their self
    righteous standards, TAKES THE SAME SUPERFICIAL, PHONEY, "GOIN'
    doesn't have to represent anything real as a dedication. Its done,
    its counted - that's it! This is actually rather surprizing because
    they've devalued the whole thing as a Christian rite.

    But I guess they already did that when they accepted young hormone
    charged kids, who are forced into meetings/service - as dedicated
    and baptised members , anyway.


  • stephenw20

    Baptism would be good and fine , if after your baptised, they dont change the VOWS and thereby make you inheirently agree to these without prior notice or even mention.

    WT May 1, 1973 p.280

    (1) Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son, Jesus Christ?

    (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through his son, Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

    WT June 1, 1985 p. 30

    (1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

    (2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit directed organization?

    Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism.

    I wonder if the editor(god)had anything to do these changes...this or the guy directing(JESUS) the FDS..........

    can you imagine the meetings....GB member...." well uh.. God.... we want to change um the vows...... for dedication from dedication to you and your son uhum ur dedication to US the JWS. the WTBTS......... is it OK?


    I am an elder, and we came across a situation last year where a bro was sectioned under english mental health act after going loopy smoking in the khall / sleeping around The service desk asked us to anull his baptism so as not to be seen to d' f mentally ill ones
    So there are rare occasions

  • willy_think

    "The service desk asked us to anull his baptism so as not to be seen to d' f mentally ill ones"

    funny, gods organization wants not to be seen in bad light, by worldly people!

    almost like the old worldly saying "protect the corporate image."

    the ideas and opinions expressed in this post do not necessiarly represent those of the WTB&TS inc. or any of it's subsidiary corporations.
  • Moxy

    hi jemimah. havent seen you in a while.
    enjoyed your insight in your h2o posts. hope u stick around and post a bit here.


  • metatron

    How nice of them to condescend to annul the baptism of the
    retarded or mentally ill! Dare we hope that kids who were
    molested and forced to go to meetings can find the same

    Or would that open a floodgate they don't want to think about?


  • willy_think


    that post just hit me like a ton of bricks. i do dare hope.
    the WTB&TS inc. on the other hand i think will protect the corporate image. but what a great cost to each and every JW and there familise in one way or another.

    NRSV Luke 11.39 Then the Lord said to him "Now you Pharisees clean the outside of the cup and the dish, but inside you are full of greed and wickedness you fools! Did not the one who made the outside make the inside also? So give for alms those things that are within and see everything will be clean for you
    But woe for you Pharisees! For you tithe mint and roe and herbs of all kings and neglect justice and the love of god; it is these you ought to have practiced, without neglecting the others. Woe to you Pharisees! for you love to have the seat of honor in the synagogues and to be greeted with respect in the marketplace. Woe to you! for you are like unmarked graves, and people walk over them without realizing it
    Luke 12 "beware the yeast of the pharisees, that is, their hypocracy. Nothing is covered up that will not be uncovered, and nothing secret that will not become known, for whatever you have said in the dark will be heard in the light, and what you have whispered behind closed doors will be proclaimed from the housetops."

    the ideas and opinions expressed in this post do not necessiarly represent those of the WTB&TS inc. or any of it's subsidiary corporations.
  • Uncanny

    You would think that to all 'true Christians' the annulling of his/her baptism would be morally reprehensible, scripturally abominable, and legally impossible, seeing that a public dedication of one's faith is supposed to be a personal bond or contract made between an individual and Jehovah God.

    But since the questions to be answered in the affirmative by all candidates for JW baptism were ammended some years ago to add a dedication to the ORGANISATION itself, as well as GOD, therefore, annulling of a Jehovah's Witness baptism is presently understandable, fully acceptable and legally the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society.

    (I should have been a QC, damnit, and not a pioneer.)


  • stephenw20

    since this is not doubt a cult.........

    can we not claim temporary insanity?

  • Flowerpetal

    Our CO, whose 3 years in our circuit is almost up, gave as one of his service talks one time, about the young ones getting baptised because it was the thing to do. Well the elders in my cong, when they had one of their meetings with him, told him they didn't like his suggestion because most of these kids that are pressured to get baptized, 3 yrs. later you hear a letter that they've been d'fd. So my elders, while encouraging baptism, are seeking to emphasize the spiritual side.

    Then at a circuit assembly a while back, the CO stated that we should get the young one baptized, so in case the draft might be started up again, they would protected from that. What a reason!

    His talk should have been more about what dedication means, and if one has dedicated his life to God in the first place. I find that he is strictly an organizational man.

    A previous CO, after he got out of the work because of his health, realized, because he told me, that COs, DOs and even the GB at Bethel have no idea what the "real world" is like. He saw first hand in his cong,. the many problems the friends were having. I better quit now....starting to ramble.

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