Can JWs Be DF'd Just For Believing Differently?

by Yadirf 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    The following is copied from off another forum, as I thought it ought to be given as wide a publicity as possible because it seems most people here don't have a really good understanding of the issue and policy of the WTS.

    Can JWs Be DF'd Just For Believing Differently?

    http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi

    Posted by QuestionFromViewer on Thu - Dec 19 - 01:30am:

    Question From a Viewer:

    My husband and I are trying to help a dear elder friend who has questions and doubts, but still believes that the org is our "mother", just imperfect. He does not believe in 1914 and has talked about it to us. We are "feeding" him a little at a time and think that his most sensitive spot at this moment is the society's harsh disfellowshiping policy. I have seen somewhere, I thought it was in a Watchtower, words to the effect that we do not need to be trying to teach others our ideas to be disfellowshiped, just believe differently.

    He is a very sincere loving brother, and knows he has done nothing to deserve Christian punishment. We would just like him to see the reality of the policy. Could someone please help?

    Posted by Nicodemus on Thu - Dec 19 - 2:27pm:

    In Reply to: Can JWs Be DF'd Just For Believing Differently? posted by QuestionFromViewer on Thu - Dec 19 - 01:30am:

    This is an interesting question.

    It can be argued that Jehovahs Witnesses insist on strict conformance to their teachings if one wants to be an approved associate. This argument can be supported by quotes such as the following:

    "Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses." (Watchtower, April 1, 1986, page 31.)

    First, since oneness is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and the faithful and discreet slave. By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided at the proper timethrough Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventionswe can be sure that we maintain oneness with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge.Matthew 24:45.
    (Watchtower, August 1, 2001)

    However, it is a simple fact that many, perhaps even most, Jehovahs Witnesses have at least some level of reservation with one or more of such unique teachings. For example, some sisters who have lost their mates in death have expressed (i.e. verbally communicated to others, including to elders) at least some level of doubt regarding our teaching that they will not be reunited with their mate in the resurrection.

    In other cases, others, including elders, have discussed questions, even disagreements, directly with the Society, without undue adverse reaction. My experience has been that, if one is dealing with balanced elders, one will not experience difficulty unless it is felt that they are actually teaching (i.e. continually speaking with other JWs about) some disagreement.

    In summary; Are you at risk of judicial action simply because of believing differently one a point? Likely not.

    Could you be at risk if it was felt you were promoting your views to fellow Witnesses? Yes, with some variance in each circumstance depending on the perspective of local elders.

    Posted by TomCabeen on Thu - Dec 19 - 5:30pm:

    In Reply to: Re: Can JWs Be DF'd Just For Believing Differently? posted by Nicodemus on Thu - Dec 19 - 2:27pm:

    My personal experience is that, if the elders want to take a hard line for one reason or another, someone can be disfellowshipped just for admitting that they have questions, let alone actually believing something that is not in harmony with the current official understanding of some doctrine. I was disfellowshipped for that very reason after 23 years as a baptized Witness, having served in full time service for over 12 years (including a very successful Bethel career) and never having been disciplined for any reason during my entire life as a Witness.

    After some at the Brooklyn WT headquarters (John Williams in the Treasurer's Office and Vern Wisegarver on the Factory Committee, among others) spread completely false rumors suggesting that my wife and I were "apostates," the local elders called us into a meeting and began quizzing us. They had heard that we may have had some doubts, but had no idea what they might be about, so they just "fished" for about an hour and a half. Since they had no idea what they were looking for, the main line of questioning was along the lines of "do you think this is Jehovah's organization?" At the time, I could only reply: "I see evidence that Jehovah has worked through this organization, but I am not willing to say that God, who can do anything he wants to, cannot use other means as well." That was interpreted as "having doubts."

    Later, it was reported to me by a relative that was an elder that before the elders met with me, one of them called the Service Department at Brooklyn Bethel and were told "If he has any doubts whatsoever, he is an apostate and should be disfelloswhipped." I was unable to reassure the elders that I would never have any doubts, nor could I agree not to ever discuss any of my doubts with anyone else. Just prior to making their judgement of our case, as they were exiting the meeting room, the chairman, John Gebhard of the Lancaster, Pennsylvania congregation, asked my wife "Do you agree with your husband's biblical views?" She replied "Yes, pretty much." After a brief discussion (no more than ten minutes), the elders returned and we were told "You've left us no choice." We were both disfellowshipped.

    Let me stress that in our case, no specific doctrines were ever discussed that I can recall except for the matter of my statement of belief that Jehovah God was free to use any means to accomplish his will that he wanted to.

    I admit that our case is probably not typical, but the fact is that elders have wide latitude to interpret matters and take action as they see fit. If they err, they will not have to answer for it, for no JW in good standing can ever go to the disfellowshipped individual to hear his or her side of the story, even if they suspect that the elders acted inappropriately without seriously risking their own standing. A disfellowshipped individual has little or no credibility with most loyal JWs, no matter how spotless their previous reputation was. If they attempt to defend themselves, they can find no hearers within the organization.

    Tom Cabeen
    [email protected]

  • justhuman
    justhuman

    THAT IS NOT SOMETHING WE SHOULD NOT THINK TO QUESTION ABOUT.

    Don't believe all the teachings of WTs then your out for good

  • Utopian_Raindrops
    Utopian_Raindrops

    Friday....was this suposed to be in defence of The WTBS?

    Cause if it is dude......it's NOT A GOOD THING TO POST!!....

    1st off although Nicodemus mostly put his own ideas with quotes that don't go along with his thinking........and then well.....Tom Cabeen's experiance sorta sinks The S.S. Watchtower into the Icy Blue Deep.

    Sorry Friday.

    Just thought you'd like to know.

    Ciao 4 now

    Utopian_Raindrops

    Edited by - Utopian_Raindrops on 20 December 2002 2:20:25

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    As every single poster here knows, or anyone who has fallen afoul of an elder, what the Watchtower prints for public d issemination and what elders practice are two entirely different things. If they want you, they'll get you. I have seen too many DF'd simply because they rubbed some elder the wrong way.

    Lw W

  • unclebruce
    unclebruce

    Hey yadirf, consider yourself disfellowsheeped! lol

    Me too. It's been made plain that if i make my presence felt in a Kingdom Hall again I'll face a committee hearing (that'd be fun but i can't be bothered right now) See what happens when ya don't go to meetings for a year or so?! ;)

    a sincere merry xmas to you and mrs.friday, unc.

  • minimus
    minimus

    yup.....You need some coaching on asking better questions. My no-brainers are better that that!

  • minimus
    minimus

    Yup....You need coaching on asking better questions. My no-brainers are better than this one!

  • ozziepost
    ozziepost

    You've started a stutter, minimus!

  • link
    link
    The following is copied from off another forum, as I thought it ought to be given as wide a publicity as possible because it seems most people here don't have a really good understanding of the issue and policy of the WTS.

    Yardif,

    I very much suspect "most people here" still dont!

    link

  • metatron
    metatron

    Policy , my ass!

    THEY CAN DISFELLOWSHIP AT ANY TIME THEY FEEL INCLINED. THEY CAN LIE,EXAGGERATE,
    AND DECEIVE TO GET SOMEONE OUT.

    I KNOW FIRST HAND. Elders lied and covered up a case involving child molestation
    in my old hall. The Society had all the evidence of their lies - THEY DID NOTHING!

    More proof of lies? Consider Tom Cabeen's case. The Society talked about not
    going on a witchhunt for apostates in their letter, after the Ray Franz thing
    broke out. Did they actually follow what that letter said as policy? NO! They
    did whatever they want, as they always do, knowing that the rank and file won't
    revolt at any LIE they tell.

    More proof of lies - these sociopaths claim to follow the Bible - yet will ignore
    scriptures about being kind and merciful to those "having doubts" and df them anyway.

    To the best of my knowledge, these liars have NEVER EXPLICITLY commanded the elders
    to follow the Bible - in which you are free to believe whatever you want but must
    not advocate "a sect" or division. They DON'T CARE.

    metatron

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit