Standing for Judge Okay - Standing for Anthem Wrong

by berrygerry 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • berrygerry
    For decades before leaving, I always found this contradiction so hypocritical, and one of the harshest, emotionally damaging, things that this cult does to its young.
  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    I always found this...

    There's your problem right there. Stop looking for all the stupid stuff in WT and repeat after all the witness at the RC, "It's in the Bible!"

  • berrygerry

    You're right, Billy.

    I apologize for having been found guilty of thinking.

  • Vidiot


    I suspect that's why they eased up on the anthem-standing thing back in the 80s (at least where I was, anyway), as long as you didn't actually sing it.

  • DesirousOfChange

    The latest "School Brochure" has for years said that it is a matter of conscience if one chooses to stand (but not sing) the National Anthem.


  • Saintbertholdt

    Judges are viewed by the law and governments as temporary aristoi. Supreme court justices as permanent aristoi. Aristocracy has actually never left modern democracies, just taken a different form.

    According to the Bible you can honor princes and kings, therefore standing is ok.

  • steve2

    The ease with which Geoffrey Jackson used the honorific"Your Honor" when responding to Judge McCllelan's questions shows that under certain circumstances the modern breed of JW would pass under the radar and be perceived by "the world" as just like everyone else. I remember JWs of yesteryear who would refuse to take an oath on the Bible or on anything under any circumstances and who doggedly refrained from the use of honorifics that traditionally implied worship (e.g., Your Honor, Your Worship). Of course, even JWs of old learnt pretty quickly that if you refused to stand when the judge entered the Court, you were in contempt of Court and your case was thwarted.

    Practicalities and strategies demand you don't make a stand. Even religious scruples dissolve in the face of penalties and bad publicity - especially when your organization is found to be no different morally and ethically than the very groups you've criticized as immoral and ungodly. Public shaming can be a humbling experience, as shown by Jackson's obvious desire to be seen as totally cooperative. And who wouldn't be? Just don't then tell us you're led by a Bible-trained conscience.

  • Saintbertholdt

    From Legally establishing the good news (1950):

    You will show respect to the Judge presiding and to the prosecuting attorney... In many courts all present are required to rise and stand as the judge enters. The Society considers that this does not constitute a violation of God's law. It is an act of respect similar to rising from our chairs to greet one who enters our home. Paul set the example for us to follow when he appeared before kings, rulers, judges and courts. When being beard before the visiting king, Agrippa, he was interrupted by Festus. Paul tactfully said, "most noble Festus."

  • cappytan
    DOC is right. I've been baptized for 24 years, and as long as I can remember, it has never been against the rules to rise for the national anthem.
  • dubstepped
    Maybe technically it wasn't against the rules, but my parents and others I knew made their kids sit at times. I got in trouble with one teacher over it, and other teachers made me sit out in the hall and walk back into the room when it was over. I eventually wised up to the fact that I could stand without making such a scene and went that route as I got older.

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