Liberal JW's

by Dubby 24 Replies latest jw friends

  • Dubby

    I admire the JW's who seem to be not too affected by what the Society teaches. For instance; My brother became a JW when he met his wife, who was born into the WTS. His wife and her family, always seemed to be very gregarious people, and enjoy life very much. When I was a militant JW, this bothered me. It seemed to me that they all were spiritually weak. Non held responsible positions in the cong. They did what they wanted to do.

    I felt that they should be more studious, and be more serious about the responsibilities of being a JW. They moved around a lot and seldom went out in service. They rarely talk about their religion, let alone the bible. Nothing unscriptural was done, just enjoying life like "normal" people. My brother knows that I'm at odds with the WTS now, but we don't talk about it, and I still talk to them. In fact I just spent a few days at their house to see my nephew graduate from high school. They seem to accept me knowing that I'm not an active JW and don't agree with many of their teachings. It seems to me that if I voice my opinions to them, they could be liable for associating with an "apostate". So, it's sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" situation.

    In other words, they treat their religion somewhat lightly, but don't do anything to get removed. I could't do that myself, for guilt would overcome me. Guilt for not striving to be the best JW that I could be. I admire them for their easy-going attitudes. I wish I could've been more like that. They don't let guilt bother them, evidently.

    Any comments? How were you guys as active JW's? were you militant or lax as a JW? Was guilt a driving force for you like it was for me? How did you view "lazy" JW's? Were you a lazy JW, or were you striving to put the Society first instead of your family?

    "Enjoy God's creation, ride a dirt bike!"

  • katchoo

    I wish more people could be the way you describe. Then the JWs would be a normal, semi-healthy religion. It would be a darn sight better than it is now.

    My family were militant "YOU MUST BE PERFECT" JWs. They still are. They all shun me without even knowing the situation, just because a couple of elders (who most of them have nver met) say that I am no longer a person. It's pathetic and sad. I am so glad my huband's family is normal and actually has genuine emotions. I like them ever so much better than my family already. :)


  • Martini

    Hello Dubby,

    I can relate to your description. I was a JW zealot, often insiders and outsiders referred to me as a FANATIC. Not because I was unreasonable or unbalanced in any mental or emotional way but rather because I believed the WT pipedream 110%.
    I took everything literally, to the letter.
    I believed the world revolved around our religion.For me our preaching work was the center of the known universe.
    I am not prepared to reveal myself by giving details to my status current or past but I can tell you that to a great measure I lived as a sterling example of the JW clone. The GB would be proud of me, in fact F.Franz said so, not in so many words mind you.
    I pitied the 'weak' who did not pioneer in their youth, who did not reach out, who just barely made the national average, who could not Aux.Pioneer several times a year etc,etc. I believed that what the FDS said was as authentic as Jehovah Himself saying it. If they said the end of the system was coming soon, I believed it with all my heart. Any who did not demonstrate faith in this by their actions were just fooling themselves so I thought. Until one day I woke up to smell the coffee, now the only ones I seek are 'Liberal JW's'. I'm thankful to JWXer's for giving me new direction to make a life for myself and for my loved ones.


    Edited by - Martini on 21 June 2000 13:28:29

  • Pathofthorns

    One must be careful in thinking there are JW's who don't believe too much what the Society says. Perhaps some "slackers" might appear that way, but do believe that its "the truth" despite "slacking".

    Personally I have little respect for those who feel its the truth, but ignore it. As well I regret my lack of courage in knowing the fraud, and still keeping in limited association with it.


  • Andyman

    Myself I tried to follow the rules, but found it was not easy. I am the kind of person who does what it supposed to be done, and then I am ready to move on to the next job.

    As a JW you NEVER get the job done. No matter how much you do, it is never enough. This always bothered me.

    If I hadn't gotten the local clique leader mad at me, she is also the P.O.'s wife and my wifes' sister in law, I may have made elder myself . However getting her mad at me shot any future I had in that congregation. One thing I have learned, never and I mean never cross the P.O.'s wife! At least that was the motto in my old congregation.

    Anyway once I was marked by this sister things just kept going down hill. Of course today I feel that it was God's will that caused this allowing me to see what things were really like, not the sugar coated version the society gives everyone in the magazines.

    I often think about sending that sister a "thank you" card, but it would just make things harder on my wife, so I don't.

    Take care.


    Edited by - Andyman on 21 June 2000 19:25:47

  • Frenchy

    As an elder I heard that quite a bit: "I know it's the truth even though I'm not doing everything I should..." I have trouble with that statement because to truly believe that this (JW) is 'the truth' one has to accept the 'whole body of teachings as explained by the FDS'. The most important part of being a Witness, the very purpose of being a Witness as defined by that 'body of teaching' is going to all your meetings and going out in service regularly. If you don't, you won't make it! How can you truly believe this and not do it? You can't.
    These 'weaker ones' have a problem with their faith in the religion although they would never admit it, not a first. To admit a lack of faith in the religion (teachings) would be tantamount to renouncing God himself. This they do not have the stomach for. They are, after all, spiritually weak.
    Their spiritual weakness is not, however, their not attending meetings or field service. Those are the 'symptoms' of their weakness and just treating the symptoms does nothing for the sickness. I tried to tell a C.O. this once. He missed the point. (I know, I'm a devil!) Their problem is that they no longer believe regardless of what they say. I find this to be an inescapable conclusion. I'll back up my statement.
    I have known a few people (some witnesses, some not) who smoked virtually all their lives and adamatly contended that there was no way they could (or would) stop smoking regardless of the dangers associated with it. One came down with emphezema (wrong spelling I'm sure!) and the others with lung cancer. They stopped smoking. Why? Because all that ranting about 'I can't stop!' or 'I'll smoke even if it kills me!' went out of the window when they perceived the threat to be real. Get it?
    Now, here's the really interesting part. They don't believe but that is not to say that they recognize that! Strange? Yes, but true. Give them a lie detector test and they'll pass. To deny their belief is to deny 'the truth'. Think of the implications of this. How can you deny truth? You can't. 'Wait!' you cry, 'That stuff they taught us was not true!'... True enough. But remember that we were all convinced down to our very core that this religion was THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH, NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, AND THE ONLY TRUTH Were we not?
    Another illustration: A diver cannot come up from a deep dive very fast. It has to be gradual or he gets 'the bends'. Pressure. Same thing with us. We are put under tremendous pressure and when we decide to come up and out...we have to do it slowly.
    The 'weak publisher' is the one that does not completely believe. I've seen some of these 'brought back' into the fold only to have them drift out again. In time, if left alone, they become assimilated by 'the world' and lose all their identity as Witnesses. They become ordinary people again. How do they feel then? I truly don't know. Are they now relieved from being under all that pressure? Or is the old indoctrination still there and tormenting them? Some after many, many years come back... others do not.
    Why are we here, on these boards? To purge ourselves of it? Perhaps. Or could it be that way down deep inside the indoctrination never really leaves and somewhere buried deep in our psyche is the ever present notion that this still could be the truth? Are we looking for that one argument that will make it all okay again, that will once again establish our faith in 'the truth'? I don't know.

    -Say what you mean, mean what you say-

  • Martini


    YOU SAID;'Or could it be that way down deep inside the indoctrination never really leaves and somewhere buried deep in our psyche is the ever present notion that this still could be the truth?'

    I have to admit I agree with you that it is a slow exiting from our 'CULT'. Every individuals cicumstances are different but I suppose a good ratio would be 10 yrs taking 'it' in/ maybe 3.3 years getting it out.'It' being the WT propaganda.
    I do believe however that the exiting process can and will be shortened as the evidence becomes more easily discernable. Right now it's a maze to fully appreciate in what ways the WT is false.

    YOU SAID;'Are we looking for that one argument that will make it all okay again, that will once again establish our faith in 'the truth'? I don't know.'

    Myself even after reading most everything and am convinced that the WT is not God's exclusive channel would still love to hear a direct confession by the WT that those leaving MAY have good grouds for doing so.I suppose if this were said I could justify to my extended JW family that I was leaving with good reason.

    Edited by - Martini on 22 June 2000 10:46:41

  • Maxee

    I found in some of the past congregations I have been in those one were often ones with a bit of wealth or the wife worked fulltime. Glamourous clothes lots of kids when they do go out in the field they only do an hour...

    Sometimes I think the ones who are out in service all the time and doing everything the society wishes ie: all meetings pioneering, no college education no kids,get a little jealous that they can't feel that way. I have heard friends justify it by making comments about them in the same vein as some do if they are met with a major opposer "shake the dirt from your shoes" we come across at the doors.

    [italics]So and So better be careful there won't be any fulltime jobs or materialism in the new system.
    There -a-deaden at Armageddon[/italics]

    Edited by - Maxee on 22 June 2000 20:19:30

  • waiting


    For myself, even being a JW for 30 yrs, I never had the urge to pioneer, etc. I never wanted to be in the "center" of the cong. Even when I didn't work full time, I was always not near the center.

    After therepy, I thought it was because of my childhood - not wanting to commit too strongly - not wanting to be center of anything. Never quite fitting into the mold. I married a man just like me, but he was raised in the truth.

    Maybe we just never bought the program as strongly as some others. I was always good at talking and studies, etc.- it comes natural. But
    we were always taught natural ability doesn't count for much. So we're left with our motivation, and I guess mine was found lacking for the Society.

    However, I grow award-winning daylilies - and that ain't so bad, now is it?

  • Andyman

    Hi Maxee;

    What I saw was the ones that didn't have much were doing the most. The single mother on welfare was pioneering, the brother with a paper route was putting in more hours so he could make elder, the retired sisters would be out almost twice as much as any one else. They seemed to really be sincere about what they were doing.

    Then there were those who like you say had more. They seemed to get just as many hours, don't know how but they did. The elders who could pioneer, never did. They were always pushing everyone to get out and simplify their lives so they could put in more hours, but they never took that advice themsleves.

    And yes there was lots of talk behind backs. But from what I saw it worked both ways. The ones who had more complained about the ones who didn't have as much, and the ones who did't have much always complained about the ones with "too" much.

    Nobody was ever happy. The magazines keep telling us that JW's are the happiest people in the world because they have love for each other. I am still waiting to see all this happiness and love.

    Take care.


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