Spanish Navy intercepts 12 scuds

by freeman 21 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Xander

  Yeru:

  While, with the way our nation operates, Congress authorizing use of force is effectively treated as declaring war, it is not recognized as a formal declaration of war by the international community at large.

  Proof of point is that these naval actions - certainly effectively blockades - are never refered to as such.

  The *proper* thing to do is write out a full, formal, declaration of war against the nations we wish to target (or, even, the people or groups, as was the case with the pirates of the Barbary coast in the 1800s) and then declare that certain ports are blockaded.

  The point is that a state of war must exist, and the port must be DECLARED as being blockaded for these actions to be 'legal'. The declaration of blockade is a very important point.

  IF these were really for Yemeni regular army troops why were the SCUD parts hidden under sacks of cement?

  Let's see, why would a nation want to resupply its army without everybody in the world (especially their local immediate threat governments) knowing? Hmmm...let me think.....
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Xander,

  You said,

  While, with the way our nation operates, Congress authorizing use of force is effectively treated as declaring war, it is not recognized as a formal declaration of war by the international community at large.

  I thought the US government was ruled by the Constitution, not by the international community. Besides which, The Spanish Navy originally made the stop. I also thought the "international community" had banned the shippment of arms from North Korea. There are indeed accept means of Arms dealing in the International Community; hiding the weapons in the hold of an unflagged ship is not one of those means.

  No Yemeni port has been blockaded, the ship was intercepted in international waters. For the most part Yemen is cooperating with the US in our War on Terror. Given the circumstances under which these weapons were being shipped and the fact that there are large contingents of Al Qaeda in Yemen, and areas of the country the government doesn't control, and leaks in their port security as witnessed by the USS Cole and the French Oil Tanker bombings, the move on the part of the Spanish and US Navy was not only justified, but quite prudent.
• 

  Xander

  I didn't say the seizure of the ship was bad, as it happens I believe those weapons were meant for ill use, as well.

  I'm just objecting again to all the 'shortcuts' taken in getting to the point we are at now.

  One of those, shortcut here, forget to do this, don't do this properly, another shortcut, et al.

  It sets a bad precedent of which far worse could come of it.
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Xander,

  What short cuts, this action was done in accordance with US Law and International Law. La la la la Happy Christmas Easter Bunny.
• 

  Iwasyoungonce

  Yerusalyim,

  #1 Thank you for your posts. I respect what you say.

  But, I think that it is a waste of time to try to explain to some of the people here the little things like...Yemen is on the list of Nations that harbor terrorist groups. The ship would not cooperate with the Spanish (Navy?) Who stopped the ship BTW. It was not the US. And, President Bush is the Elected President of America. This may come as a shock to some but the American President is not in charge of the world. Nor is he responsible for it. But the safety of the USA and their allies is his responsibly. The US is also setting the future forum for the UN and policy in dealing with rouge groups that do not have borders. What the US does will be avenue that other countries will follow.

  Some of the people here clearly support the idea that using terrorism as policy is acceptable and no different from US policy. They think that we have to get the world's permission to take a piss. (In international affairs) They are wrong. I support the current administration and I think that putting those missiles in the hands of that country would be very bad. But that is just me. I hope these morons still hold on to dub thinking and stay out of the voting booths.
• 

  Xander

  Of course I support the US. I happen to live here, and find it very nice, thank you.

  I DO NOT, however, support the rights of the US government at the expense of its own, or any other, nations' citizens.

  The UN charter clearly defines that all humans have the right to "life, liberty and security of person," which is, above all, what I believe in most.

  As I mentioned, I don't object to seizing the ship - there is nothing in seizing a ship that I principly have a problem with. It's just doing it when their is no declared state of war or no cause.

  1) We (nor Spain, acting on our behalf) are not at war w/ North Korea OR Yemen, OR any person or agency who was associated with the seized vessel.

  2) We (nor Spain, acting on our behalf) are not the legitimate police force of Yemen in charge of securing their coastal waters.

  It's not as if a declaration of war is exactly hard to do, either, if indeed Congress supports the President's continuing 'war on terror'.

  Edited by - Xander on 11 December 2002 14:19:8
• 

  Yerusalyim

  Xander,

  You're missing several points. The method of shippment was a "smuggling operation" which is recognized as a crime. ANY nation on the high seas have not only the right but the duty to intercept such illegal shipments. This is a recognized point of international law.

  Secondly, there is a declaration of war per the US constitution which is what governs such things here in the US. Just because a resolution isn't headed with the words "Declaration Of War" doesn't make the congressional authorization to use force a) against terrorists, and b) against Iraq if necessary does not in ANY WAY make it less of a declaration of war.

  Finally, the ship was stopped so far outside of Yemeni coastal waters that they were unable at first to determine the ship's destination, so we were NOT patrolin Yemen's coastal waters, but rather the HIGH SEAS.
• 

  expatbrit

  What I want to know is: who the hell let the Spanish have another navy?

  Expatbrit, lest we forget 1588 class
• 

  deddaisy

  "U.S. military officials told NBC that the seizure was justified because the ships crew had concealed any national origin by painting over the flag on the hull, thus declaring the vessel stateless."

  " Under international maritime law, any country has the legal right to intercept and board any stateless vessel in an attempt to determine its origin. The officials also said the crew resisted the Spanish inspection and that the freighters manifest did not list missiles, instead declaring the ship was carrying cement."

  edited to try to fix this @#&*, sorry..........also Yemen is supposedly a hotbox of terrorist activity,

  Edited by - deddaisy on 11 December 2002 14:54:12
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  Yerusalyim

  Ded,

  Is part of that article missing?