Just for the record Vincent Toole and Terrence Obrien you are both lying SOBs
I noticed in the clip the lady seated pushed back from the table and covered her fact with her hand when Toole lied. She looked visibly astounded.
I would also like to add to my other comment this experience :
When I was still active I was friends with a woman that was inactive .Several of the Elders wives would make snide remarks about this or ask personal questions about my friend . I would always tell them to call and ask her themselves .... Then one day one of my best friends, who was also an Elders wife ,told me that if I did not cut off association with the inactive sister ,then she would no longer be able to be my friend .She used the same logic as they do with DFd persons " You have to cut off association so that they will see what they are missing ".She also said if this sister is involved with worldly things than I am guilty too by association.
So don't tell me you can just walk away !
Just to say, I agree 100% with the Thread Title.
Anyone disagree ???
Shunning of inactive ones is a bit hit and miss, I would say. You'll always get some who will say "hi" and some who will panic because they're not sure what to do and some who are outrightly self righteous and shun to their heart's content.
My own experience is that I get polite greetings and the odd text message from people who used to be close friends. But the aim is always to get me back to the meetings. Would they want to arrange a trip to the pub or cinema just to hang out? Probably not - unless it was also a backdoor method of trying to get me back to the hall.
That said, I do get the occasional letter from two dear older sisters in my old congregation. One of them always makes a point of inviting me around for coffee and cake and tells me that her husband (who is not a witness) says "hi".
My immediate family, to their credit, are playing the game very well and haven;t shunned me and don't ask me about my lifestyle. But the relationship has changed and not positively. My mum blames "bad association" for my spiritual "demise"...
The bottom-line is, shunning or no shunning, we ARE viewed negatively if we leave. It's impossible not to be. We are either pitied, patronised, judged or viewed as weak. We are not their equal anymore....
Spot on, Krejames! I could have written all five of your well-thought-out paragraphs!
This is meaningful to me because I worked on the publication, AID TO BIBLE UNDERSTANDING. While the quotation below is found, too, in the INSIGHT book, I prefer the former book. Thus it is written, but is it practiced? Just WHO is my brother?
Regarding "love believes all things," from the 13th chapter of 1 Corinthians:
"Love produces confidence in one's faithful Christian brothers, [italics added] not suspecting them or disbelieving them unless there is absolute proof they are wrong." ATBU, p.1083, para. 1.
The treatment of the inactive and successful faders has been discussed many times. If I am not wrong the OldHippie is not American, and neither am I . I am treated OK by the local dubs and can even socialize if I want. They are quite a friendly bunch around here. In the U K, I have not seen people choosing to coldly shun ex's unless they hear a d/f announcement. (somebody will give me an experience though, I am sure!)
From many posts on here , too many to ignore, it is evidently different in the U S ..
The Court testimony said about "not viewed negatively" .. That much I am sure is untrue. Of course I am viewed negatively, they are just pleasant to my face, while believing it is right to have me killed at Arm. unless I mend my ways, and no doubt think I am a lazy so and so for not joining them "on the work"
TheOldHippie-Speaking from personal experience I had people tell me,,,,,,,"Speaking from MY personal experience, in my congregation's district there are some 8-10 inactive ones, and they are greeted and well treated by everone in the congregation, visited from time to time etc. One of them has been an elder, two servants. So it is a risky business to try to broaden one's own personal experience to be the one and only truth for the entire world. I never would try to say my experience is the universal one, and perhaps neither should you.
This does not wash, and reads as typical apologist bullshit. You are using a straw man. No one is saying it applied to the "entire world". What people are saying holds true mostly, and that is the point. Stop being so intellectually dishonest.
JWs do not tolerate former believers. "Inactive" is a JW proprietary term, and its importance does vary from person to person. That is really about as subjective as this matter becomes. The second a JW openly admits to no longer being a believer, (DF/DA or not), just watch how many "greet [this individual] and well treated by everyone", he/she is. Former believers are a direct source of cognitive dissonance for a believer. They will shun them automatically. And yes, I do speak from experience, and it does damn near apply almost universally.
Bumping this thread, it has some important quotes.
This is an important thread.
Although there are clear - and welcome - exceptions, the overriding conclusion is that the state of being an inactive JW is more often than not viewed by active JWs as sufficient grounds for shunning - or significantly changing the "nature" of the relationship (i.e., no longer invited for shared meals, averting eyes to avoid having to say, "Hi", expressing views to other active Witnesses that extending warmth will send the wrong message - and no one daring contradict that sentiment).
OMG, I just posted an article about the WT's (and other religions) institutional response to child abuse and my mom is shunning me again. And I took it OFF the FB so she wouldn't. She still is, though. I'm not playing the game anymore. There is that.
Those guys are both lying SOBs and I have never disrespected the org or the defenders as much as I do now. It is so undeniably ugly, and they are so undeniably lying their treadmarked tighty whities off!