Quality Thinking - Warning: Long Post Ahead

by Viviane 82 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    That, IMHO, is where higher education helps. It is difficult to get a Master's degree, and impossible to get a doctorate, without understanding and practicing the science of research.

    Hmmm, and then along came Dr. Monica Applewhite to completely undermine the perceived value of a higher education. Was she too busy to really examine WT practices and the damaging results? Did WT offer enough money that she looked past the damage that would result from JC procedures? Were the other organizations she has worked with so terrible that the WT procedures looked wonderful? Is the deception of WT so successful that she really thought a collection of dimwits as seen on the RC would be able to handle child abuse cases correctly?

    So many questions... so few answers.

  • andrekish

    Wow. This post is an intellectual attention grabber. Thank you, Viviane.

    Because I like to poke my nose into things, which is a logical thing for a thinking mechanism which doesn't have all of the necessary infomation yet, to do, I hope I may ask a couple of questions and offer a couple of statements.

    I have worked with computer systems and networks [rofessionally since the early 1980s. If I may say to LisaRose, your path is very similar to us so-called professionals who have pretty much been doing as you have done, but we got quite well paid so it may not have been just for the sciency stuff we all together, prof and amateur, since many of my colleagues had lovely cars and stuff. Mine went on booze and drugs. They've long since scrapped the cars but at least I've got scars to prove what I got up to at music festivals, etc, still so it wasn't a total waste of time my part, logically and illogically.

    I'm not rich now but had fun in this life. So there is logic and illogic, depending on worldview and things like that. But my knowledge of technical electronics digital information systems and coding means I am actually qualified to blow up any electronic component I have a mind to or fiddle with any coded information within a computerised system.

    We can do that with DNA these days, another coding type, that when run creates intelligence and thus we can discuss logic and it's analysis, conclusions and belief systems. Thus if I see a ghost or appararition, as part of the analysis of the event I have to include initially the possibilities that I am having a brainstorm and the possibility that ghosts do exist. I must also add, from person experience, the probability that neither of the previous is correct. It is extremely hard to make proper conclusions as we don't have enough hard evidence at the time the ghost appeared.

    However, and finally the point of this waffle, what happens when we personally see images in our heads of events which actually occur as per image, at a later time? What kind of critical analysis could we make of that. initially? Nothing concrete in any analytical sense. When it happens repeatedly a body of evidence can be analysed and certain conclussions drawn, by logic, critical thinking, etc.

    I keep getting such images in my head. They have happened for years and always been accurate. What do I conclude? The reason I ask, and I hope anyone who has continued thus far will not mind considering, is that the one thing I cannot do for myself is logical peer review, because this seems to happen to very few people but if it can happen to 1 DNA pile, me, it can happen to all DNA piles, all humanity ultimately.

    What it has done is to make me look at the prophecies spoken about in the original old texts. The one thing I logically conclude from a personal perspective is that the old guys, way back when they were writing their stuff, could, well have been seeing exactly what they said they were.

    So, in conclusion, what would you make of this if it kept happening to you? If you keep having images in your head of events that later happen? I ask because it is a series of genuinely real events that occur on this earth for some reason or other. Somehow, it is possible for humans to see what will later happen. This I know from weight of personal experience, so I would truly love a bit of outside critical thinking by people who by posting on this topic by Vivianne prove they can do it, namely, you, the reader.

  • truthseeker100

    ron rawson: their method seems to be draw a conclusion, then find means to support it.

    That is so true. I have heard witnesses tell me about their experience learning to be witnesses. One witness told me that he said to his study conductor "If you can show it to me in the bible I'll believe it." When you start off with reasoning like that your goose is cooked. His conclusion was already formed. The bible is the truth. He was very appreciative of the witnesses setting him straight on what the bible says.

    Critical thinking is important and as a part of critical thinking it's important to realize when your conclusions about something are wrong. Sometimes that's the most difficult thing for any of us to do. Proving someone wrong on something sometimes leads to all sorts of new discoveries.

  • OnTheWayOut

    I didn't know just how much faulty logic I used in talks at the Kingdom Hall until I properly freed my mind. And even where I disagree with people on things now, I try to understand why they think the way they do.

    One huge thing I have gained is learning what anecdotes are. Another is to have a healthy dose of scepticism.

    But I don't reject things automatically just because they are difficult for my imagination - a multiverse or the big bang. Heck, even though I am atheist, I am willing to see actual non-anecdotes in the form of evidence of a creator. Until it presents, I am just not willing to embrace the gods of men.

    Conspiracy theories are tough, though. Some seem to make sense, but evidence is typically just anecdotes. I mean, most religious beliefs seem born from conspiracy but evidence is hard to come by.

  • Oubliette

    Great thread!

    Can't wait to really read it in detail. Until then, here is a short list of critical thinking skills that everyone should have in their toolkit:

    • Analyzing for assumptions
    • Analyzing evidence
    • Analyzing arguments (the validity of statements)
    • Asking effective questions
    • Classifying
    • Comparing and contrasting
    • Deductive reasoning
    • Evaluating sources (for reliability and bias)
    • Finding causes
    • Inductive reasoning (generalizing)
    • Inferring
    • Organizing information
    • Predicting (scientific predictions, not astrology or palm reading, in case you were wondering)
    • Problem solving
    • Reasoning by analogy
    • Recognizing patterns
    • Synthesizing
    • Understanding models
  • andrekish

    Hello Oubliette.

    Thanks for list. To me they will be very, very useful.

    Can I refer you to a post I put on a little earlier on this topic by Vivianne and ask you opinion after using your list of skills above.

  • KillerJones

    Where did you learn about Boolean operations?

    Great logic here. Loved it.

  • startingover


    It was just this morning as i was reading the thread about the moon landing that I prayed to Clint Eastwood to show me how to properly evaluate the quality of evidence. I open up JWN this evening and I have been blessed with everything I need and more.

    Seriously, I had planned to start a thread this evening hoping for the info you just supplied, thank you!

  • Vidqun
    But how to avoid confirmation bias? I notice it in religionists as well as non-religionists. Are we naturally inclined towards evidence that favor our beliefs, tendencies or hypotheses or has it been acquired over time? Something to do with pride, perhaps? Or has it to do with the way we think, and/or collect information?
  • Viviane
    But how to avoid confirmation bias?

    Opening your evidence for others to look at, being clear on what you are saying, using the scientific method!

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