I take issue with the comment'didn't take responsibility fir themselves'. Jt and Thirdson explained that to you quite well..you werent there to hear talk after STRONG talk from the platform about higher education being a waste of time in this limited 'system of things'. And how pioneering was just about the only way to use these 'last days' wisely. How those who mentioned college or tried to go wwere treated: With derision and as spiritually sick and weak ones......the pressure ones witness family put on you to 'do the right thing' avoid worldly pursuits and pioneer,,,,,,,I gave up scholarships..... and then later on in life,struggling as a single parent,working full time and going to college as an 'older adult'.
Or having to take care of medical problems that many put off because the new system was around the corner and jeh would fix everything we'd soon be perfect,so who needed to bother? Or how people sold homes,cashed in insurance policies,etc. Many areas of life were were seriously affected due to the '75' debacle. Have you checked out other w/s that have personal expeeriences about that? It's a real eye-opener,I suggest you do. Tina
1975 - After 26 years isn't it time to move on?
Any jehovah's witness that I have asked about the date, denies it. They told me that it was no big deal, no one taught or thought that armageddon was going to happen that year. They said that all the society ever said was that Adam would be 6,000 years old. It's interesting for me to see the research and to witness the group amnesia in action. These people claim that they were around during that time, yet never even noticed anything extraordinary going on. Either they are lying to me, or they have deluded themselves. When you're researching a religion, that sort of thing is significant.
I think it also serves as a valuable lesson-don't put too much trust in these guys. They mislead people and then act as though it was the follower's fault for trusting their lead. How can anyone take them seriously? I hear talks and read articles about listeningt o the ones "taking the lead", that they were put in place by holy spirit. Hopefully people that know the facts of 1975 will think twice before believing that.
I take issue with the comment'didn't take responsibility fir themselves'
please don't do that - keep in mind that he merely reflect the intense training and indoctrination that wt uses on it's members
esp those who become jw after the fact
anyone who becomes a jw after 95 will never know that the 1914 gen was not suppose to die off before the end 0 smile
as you know any jw who was around if they were to talk about the error of the society in relationship to this issue 1975 would be Dogged by the avg jw
This poster provides an excellent glisp inside the mind of a jw who has been progrmammed to disregard anything the wt has said that is more than 3 weeks old
keep in mind that it is due to the lack of critical thinking that has kept so many jw victims of wt
the avg person after being duped once would not allow themselves to be duped twice as they say
the first time duped shame on you
the second shame on me for allowing you to dupe me
yet jw year after yr are duped yet they never realize that they have been duped
the wt has counted on the fact that the avg jw will accept whatever they are told.
it reminds me of a program i saw of some young 18yr skinheads who were in a forum with Nazi surviors and they could not get it
since they were not there while these old folks in thier 80' 90's saw first hand the suffering -
that is what i often see among younger jw be they current or former jw many times
they simply have no idea what it was like
my mom cried many nights due to being pregnant with my baby bro
she was always being toldk WOE THE THE PREGNANT WOMAN
one sister told my mom HOW WILL YOU RUN with a baby in your belly
my mom cried out of SHEAR FEAR
YET TODAY my bro is 27 and has a 5 yr old kid
so don't get upset with posters like the guy here
he simply was not there --NO FAULT OF HIS OWN
in fact his question is a very good one
the only thing he needs to do is take into account the CONTEXT
BUT I'm glad he is at least here
when you consider the millions of jw who would not even dare to come here to this forum and why???
FOR THE SAME REASON WE THOUHT THAT 75 was so important
they told us what to do and how to think
same with most jw the apostates sites RUN A CHILL DOWN THEIR BACKS the same as the yr 1975 ran a chill down our backs
just my 2
to witness the group amnesia in action--------they have deluded themselves
you have well summed it up
but then consider what choice do they have- if one stayed after 75 they had no choice but to down play it otherwise they would be called apostates and kicked out-
as you so clearly pointed out these are major factors- i personally don't focus on jw too much due to the power indoctrination process of wt 5 meetings, and ton of books to read- so when trying to get them to reason is very difficult unless they are having questions and are willing to use /Critical thinking otherwise it is a waste of time
but i love NONJW - persons who have not bought into the WE SPEAK FOR GOD DON'T QUESTION US MINDSET
no nonjw are quick to see the double standard one for thier church and another for wt even though they make the same mistake on a dogma
wt says they are a false religion when they have a dogma no based on the bible but merely the opinion of thier leaders
yet when it is shown that wt has a dogma not based on the bible but merely the opinon of the Boys in Writing
wt kicks into the WE MEANT WELL MODE
and beleive me when you show a nonjw that they see it like day
so the net provides the info not only for jw who are starting to use Critical thinking but for folks who may be looking into wt
as i told my father-in law when on studies they are highly commended and praised for asking lots and lots of questions yet the day they hit the water they can't ask one single question ESP in the context OF THE ORG IS WRONG
enjoyed your post
Someone who has robbed you of the best years of your life, dictated how you should raise your children to their detriment that hinders the rest of their lives: that group deserves to be accountable.
1975 was just one instance of their false prophesying, frenzying propaganda. The numbers of new ones baptized increased greatly. Ray Franz (in Crisis of Conscience) brings out the GB didn't slow down the frenzy because the numbers were increasing so much.
This one event is part of a pattern of the WTBS--setting dates and goading people with the nearness of the end-- and to remain ignorant of this is to continue the cycle of wasting your life and your children's lives on the altar of a publishing company.
Many who have discovered all of this are appalled and want to keep the issues alive so others can get their lives back. It springs from love for fellow humans.
Best to you,
Enjoying your posts(as usual) you are so on the money.:>
Your points are well-taken......
oooo I remember the fear many women had of getting or being pregnant at that time.........my own mother used to talk about how could she run and hide with 5 kids(made us feel like a burden) that is was going to be existing at a sheer survival level. yep,fear was rampant,,,,,agian thanks for the points and posts,,,Hi To mrs JT ! reagrds,Tina
Great post! So glad you aren't at the meeting, you are right where we need you. BTW I will never forget my active JW mom telling me about the men that would kill all of her kids in front of her but she will remain faithful to God. I felt so comforted and protected by her words(sarcasm)
That is a good question, really it is, and I am glad you asked. I am new to the net and even though others have seen this research hundreds of times, there is always someone out there that is reading it for the first time. I applaude those that post their research and pick apart the wtbts. If you read the posts it shows how much time and effort is put into them. I know I don't hav ethe knowledge or the patience to do this. I sincerly appreciate those that do.
As far as moving on and getting on with their lives....well there are many things in this world that deserve a cause. And the sheer amount of lives lost, families torn apart, and unhapiness surounding the org, desrves a cause too, IMO.
There are people who say that just because they werent there for it the HOLACAUST also didnt happen. That it is Jewish Urban Legend made up to trump up sympathy. If its OLD news and we should just move on, perhaps all the OlD news in the Bible which is 2000 years old, we should just move past too? If a person lied to you and lied to you and lied to you...why would you believe them when they tell you anything now? Just because what they said was in the past? Just because they are now labeling it a "mistake" and not THEIR mistake but the SHEEP'S mistake somehow its now irrelevant and never happened or was greatly exaggerated? Tell me how 3 million people all came to the EXACT same conclusions at the EXACT same time if that "conclusion was not careful orchestrated and PLACED there for them to "conclude"? I suggest strongly you go look at what your innocent Society wrote to create this fervor.
read it ALL
Excellent comments so far!
Many people were angry about the 1975 fiasco, but a lot of us were simply disappointed at the time. After we systematically looked into just what the Society had said, and many had left the JW organization, some anger set in. The anger and disappointment were a result of several things: disappointment that 'the end' had not come, irritation that those 'speakers for God' had encouraged us to believe a false thing, anger that they ultimately blamed their failure on everyone who they deceived.
Today most JWs deny that the Society did anything wrong. They claim that it was only a few overly enthusiastic people who blew what the Society said out of all proportion to what they meant. These people are either lying to themselves, or have been lied to by other JWs.
Only by researchers' making sure that solid proof from the Society's own publications is freely available will honest JWs be able to see the truth for themseves. JWs and the Society certainly aren't going to do it, and they've already demonstrated that they usually lie about it.
What the 1975 fiasco did was to demonstrate conclusively that Jehovah's Witness leaders -- the Governing Body -- are not what they claim. They do not get any information from God, except perhaps in the same way that every other Christian religion claims to -- by reading the Bible. They do not speak for God, although they claim to speak in God's name and teach that only those who cling to their organization will survive Armageddon. Therefore they are false prophets, because not only are they false teachers, but they falsely claim to speak for God.
Since so many have been completely deceived by these false teachers, it's only right that people be provided with information that shows what the false teachers really are -- people to be ignored.
Many peoples' lives were negatively affected by the 1975 nonsense. Some people were under a lot of pressure to do well in "God's organization" and they hoped strongly that 1975 would bring an end to their striving so strongly for "God". When the false prophecy fell apart, they did too. Others were affected negatively by not doing what they should have in terms of getting an education and becoming much less able to properly support their future families. Others threw away opportunities that left them in difficulty later down the road.
It took me about nine years to get back on track careerwise. I finished high school in 1969 and, following the Society's instructions and thinking that it was extremely likely that Armageddon would come before 1975, I threw away a scholarship and other money available for college. I tried pioneering but found I hated it, then worked at various garbage jobs (the congregation I was in was extremely unhelpful in helping me find a decent job) until I got a job as a bank teller. Of course, bank tellers are extremely poorly paid and the work was extremely uninteresting for me. I got married in 1975. When 1975 passed without incident, I gradually grew restless with the failed expectations, and in 1978 I decided to go to college. I went to a community college for a year, did very well, then went to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, from which I graduated in 1982 with a Bachelor's degree in electrical engineering. Then I went to work for an electronics company in the Pacific Northwest of the U.S., and in another three years got my Master's degree in EE. I went on to take Ph.D. level courses but never got that degree. Going to college was the best thing that ever happened to me. Today I enjoy my work (I'm designing radio microchips for cell phones) and I keep learning new and interesting things continually and I make pretty good money. I'd have none of that if I had kept following the Society's nonsensical teachings.
People deserve far more than the crap that they get by following the Watchtower's advice. Sure, some people have their lives straightened out in certain ways, but others have their lives greatly damaged. All people deserve to know the truth about "the Truth", and since most JWs and the Society won't tell them, others have decided to do so.
To illustrate how JWs are capable of deceiving people, there is a book out by a JW named Greg Stafford, called Jehovah's Witnesses Defended. Stafford has been a loyal JW and so he dedicated one chapter to defending the Society concerning the 1975 fiasco. Bright as Stafford is, he was completely taken in by other JWs (he became a JW around 1990, I believe) and tried to use a few cautionary statements in some WTS literature to prove that the Society hadn't really predicted anything about 1975. When nonsense like Stafford's defense filters through the JW community, it only reinforces their self-deception. Why should such lies be left unchallenged? Is it ethical to refrain from telling the truth to people who deserve it?
I suggest that you take to heart all the good points posters have made. Don't let the Orwellian thinking of Jehovah's Witnesses convince you that the truth is false and that falsehood is true. If you forget about 1975, you or your loved ones are liable to be burned by the Society's latest round of building false expectations.
I'll leave you with a scriptural thought. Watchtower leaders teach Jehovah's Witnesses to come to people's homes on the basis of Jehovah's and Jesus's names. Several times they have misled people by their false predictions and false suggestions of the date of Armageddon (1914, 1918, 1920, 1925, the early 1940s, the early 1950s, 1975, 1984, 1994, 2000). They have taught people in God's name that the due time for Armageddon is imminent. Note what Luke 21:8 says:
He said:"Look out that you are not misled; for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, 'I am he,' and, 'The due time has approached.' Do not go after them."
I understand where you are coming from, but to back up what's largely been said so far about the rehashing of the 1975 event, ppl lives are still being affected by the changes that they experienced in that yr.
Take my roommate for example he is one of 8 brothers and sisters. He was born into a jw family. His mother and father believed much of what was said about 1975 at the time and sold some potentially very valuable property in Orlando, Florida to pioneer in the last few months before the end. When it didn't happen his dad went crazy and heis mom forced him to leave the family. As a result he grew up like dirt poor, had to move around constantly. At the age of 17 he was paying rent and had to assume responsibilty for taking care of everybody. So it's affected ppl with long lasting consequences.
Just a few thoughts,