The 144,000 doctrine is riddled with flaws. I posted a while back on this showing that the Great Crowd are indeed in a covenant relationship with Jehovah, and Jesus is their mediator.
It all boils down to the greek work "naos" in Revelation 7:15, check the footnote. I'll find the link to the other post for you.
: What? Well, then since Eve wasn't deceived, it must logically follow that her sin was not willful, deliberate. Therefore, she MUST be under the benefit of the ransom!
Yep, flowerpetal. I've made that very argument myself. One has to ask why the distinction between Adam's not being deceived and Eve's being deceived was made in the Bible? Was it not to emphasis one and mitigate the other?
Therefore, Eve will have her own personal lion to pet and hunt straw with.
Hi Unclebruce, Real Tom must never know!!! Looks as if you are trying to whip the rug out from under all of us. Do you see any hope at all?
Hi Logical, I'll look forward to reading the other posts. What English word is used for "naos"? I've looked up a few in the Young's Concordance and can't find it. The doctrine may be riddled with flaws, but there are definately two groups, we can't all be Kings and Priests. If, as many think, (although I am not among them), that both groups go to heaven, where do the faithful ones who died before Jesus go?
By for now, YoungerTom.
Please note the charming verse in Romans that says, "all who are led by the spirit of god are the children of god."
The spirit led Jesus. The spirit leads me. Jesus and I both are children of god. Therefore Jesus and I are brothers...and so are you. And, like all good big brothers, Jesus speaks for all his younger siblings. All of them.
Jesus is not limited by the time-bound, resticted thinking of an elitist cult with an axe to grind.
Sure there's hope Young Tom,
Why be such a pessimist? You live at one of the best addresses on the best planet this side of beetlejuice. You have another 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years or more to enjoy yourself both spiritually, physically and emotionally. Aunty ABC recently did a vox pop and found most people not very impressed at the thought of living to 200 or so (as many born this century may) 3 score and 10 seems to be what most are happy with (even though we have pretty much served our purpose by the age of 25)
As the thief told Brian on the cross: "cheer up you old bugger - look on the bright side of life"
unclebruce, who wouldn't dream of pulling your rug.
Hi Farkel, what I was asking is that Adam and Eve were both new. Neither one of them knew what sin was. Perhaps CTR's teaching on the ransom, reaches as far back as Adam and includes him as well as Eve.
Unclebruce, I've got a feeling that we have had this conversation before!!! If you were 200 or so, fit and healthy, and we came along and said, "When would you like to go, to-day? No! To-morrow then? No! O.K. then, choose a day, I'm guessing that it would be never. You know that we are talking about more than just another 50 years or so.
Although I must agree with you that the Virgin Isles is one of the best addresses on the planet, we have never heard of the person of whom you speak, Auntie ABC, in this part of the world!!
for the hole world of course.
Hi Francoise, I'll have to give your post more thought, I am not a spiritual person, my mind is on earthly things, I don't consider Heaven at all. So, taken on face value, according to, Romans ch 8, vs 6-8, I,m a gonner, but there has to be more to it than that, so I'll take more time, read the context and see if I come up with something.
By for now, YoungerTom.
Welcome brother YoungerTom,
I think you will like this place.
Like one of the posters said to you, "You will not be draged into the back room here" or something like that.
This truth I believe, while we my have degrees of viewpoints, we have a comradeship. We are here to encourage and help if possible. You and are flesh and blood. I have on right to tie you to any whipping post, and lay bare your flesh. This old devilish one says, the world of mankand has see enough this type of control. I believe Unclebruce said it nicely.
I agree with brother, Old Tom. You can tell he has been around.
Again WELCOME, and please, be helpful were you can.