What Do Un-Believers Not Believe?

by mensa163 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Francois

    "...Jehovah cannot deal with imperfection." As we know.

    A limited God is not God at all. "The kingdom of heaven is within us" is universally accepted to mean that the spirit of God, a spark of actual Diety, lives in every human consciousness. Universally except for Jehovah's Witnesses. Dealing with imperfection isn't even the half of it. God is actually present in every life experience of each one of his children. And in every dark hour, at every crossroad in the forward struggle toward God, that Spirit of Truth will always speak, saying, "This is the way." And it is just because of this fact that none of us need the WTB&TS or any other organization of men arrogantly claiming a place between ourselves and God.

    But - more to the point - I believe the actual truth about Jesus is much more complex than we may be at this point able to comprehend. I see no problem with the idea that Jesus was born of Mary, that the progenitor of his physical body was Joseph (in the usual and time honored manner), and that the personality of Jesus, that quality in reality that makes him Jesus instead of any one else, was, is, and continues to be the bestowal of God. It's the personality, after all, that makes a person who he is, not his physical body.

    But I think we miss the point of Jesus' life which I believe was threefold:

    To reveal God to man.
    To reveal man to God.
    To reveal man to himself.

    And that last one is where we all have been missing the point I think. Jesus life was a demonstration of what man has the potential to be, not that we are to strive to live Jesus life. No one but the Master could do that. But we each have the potential to live a life after the manner of Jesus. If we would. Jesus life says that it's possible. Only we ourselves stand in the way our our own realization of this accomplishment in my opinion.

    The Jews (pharisees, & etc.) of Jesus time rejected him for the same reason that the modern-day pharisees of the WTB&TS re-interpret the scripture referenced above: they didn't want anyone to get the idea that they and their artifical burdens are unnecessary for salvation.

    The channel of communication God is using - my ass.


  • pomegranate

    fish begets fish
    bird begets bird
    animal begets animal
    man begets man

    God begets God

    Nature of all?


  • mensa163

    The part where you wondered whether in the Old Testament when Adam, Abraham, Noah & the boys were talking to God was it Jesus they saw?. I may have mis-understood you but it looks like you implied this.
    Maybe it is possible, Jesus supposedly existed before he came to earth so it must be possible. There are places in the OT where the Angel Of the Lord came to earth, in the same verse this angel is referred to as Lord and then as they walked along he was described being in appearance as a man. Kind of hard to get your mind around this. I have'nt read this verse for a long time but I am sure that is what it says. The one thing that bothers me is it leaves the door open for us to say Jesus was an Angel. I personally have never believed the teaching that Jesus was Micheal the Archangel as some claim.We could almost end up in a "Trinity" discussion on The Angel, The Lord, and The man in that OT situation Yikes!!!!!

  • mensa163

    .....your post....Jehovah cannot deal with imperfection.......
    Great read, well said, makes sense to me, I like the way you describe everything.
    One thing I don't get......what does "God talks thru your ass"..... mean?
    Probably a joke & I dont get it.....ha!!!

  • agent2863

    Hi Francoise, you said:

    I see no problem with the idea that Jesus was born of Mary, that the progenitor of his physical body was Joseph (in the usual and time honored manner),

    If I read you right, Joseph had nothing to do with the physical conception of Jesus.
    Matthew 1:18
    Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: when His mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child by the Holy Spirit.

  • Carmel

    Throughout the history of Christianity it has been challenged by various ideas that have caused it to re-consider its preconceived notions. One that most are familiar with is the transition from a earth-centered universe to an heliocentric cosmology, later down-graded to our planet rotating around a second class star on the edge of a modest galaxy far from the "center" of the known universe. Did this realization destroy the faith of the "true believers"? For a small number, but for the most, life went on and the church quitely forgot and went on to more important matters.

    What would/will happen when the other myths surrounding the stories of Jesus are destroyed? Is you faith based on you present doctrins, or are you able to adjust and still hold Jesus in high regard even though some of the stories are copies of other ancient myths? As light is shed on myth and it becomes mist what then?


  • mensa163

    My beliefs about Jesus remain strong no matter what the scientists discover about our universe. Especially during the endtimes we are told about a powerful delusion that God himself will send to the non-believers so that they will absolutely believe the lie. Thus it appears we may expect many things to challenge our faith. As far as the universe, I guess it is quite possible we are indeed just a tiny portion out on the edge, I also accept the possibility of other creations or life forms could exist but in the meantime the bible concentrates its message to us regarding earth as we know it and we should stick to that for now

  • Phil

    As far as I know the the combination of the two names "Jehovah" and "God" was invented by Taze Russell in the 19th century. As far as I can tell Jehovah God was never used prior to that time. Is this correct?

  • Francois

    I don't for a minute believe that Jesus ever refered to God as Jehovah. I certainly believe that Jesus knew his own father and thus knew better than to refer to God as Jehovah.


  • donkey
    Many of the people around Jesus were Jews, they walked with him, talked with him, listened to his teachings and witnessed his miracles.

    Do you even believe Jesus was real?

    Better to ask why people BELIEVE anything at all and then allow that belief (NOT FACT) to govern how they run their lives. Anyone who chooses a BELIEF and not an evidence based system to run their lives is not entirely the sharpest pencil in the box.

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