peace

by Realist 32 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Farkel

  : In this country George bush is seen as little mote than a warmonger.

  I suppose you are going to say it was also Bush's fault the World Trade Center and Pentagon were attacked causing the deaths of nearly 3,000 innocent people. When was the last time your country had a major terrorist attack? I'll bet those calling Bush a warmonger would change their tune if they lost friends or relatives to terrorism.

  They called Reagon a "warmonger," too. Same with Barry Goldwater. We don't have any worries about Soviet Union now, do we?

  Nothing wrong with being a warmonger, either. Sometimes that's what it takes, though.

  Farkel
• 

  outnfree

  WHY does the rest of the world think that America has designs on it? America IS a champion of FREEDOM from tyranny in the world. Period.

  I heard an interesting interview about two weeks ago with an Iraqi nuclear physicist who defected after the Gulf War. He said that the Iraqis are VERY close to having nuclear weapons delivery -- they only need a bit of plutonium (I could be wrong here) the size of an orange and they're done. He also said that when the weapons inspectors go into Iraq they never are allowed to speak to the TRUE movers and shakers in the programs. The top drawer scientists are "out of town" and the second- and third-in-command types are interviewed. Moreover, they are given scripted responses for the UN inspectors. Interviews are taped and if the regime does not like the way the interviewee handled himself, punishment is meted out, sometimes severely. In other words, Saddam's regime purposefully bullies the second-tier scientists into lying to the inspectors. The scientists who are in charge of the programs are kept under wraps and are threatened with the deaths of their loved ones if they try to be honest.

  The only way this gentleman was willing to defect was if the West was able to guarantee him they'd get all of his family and loved ones out. They did. And he has since provided the government with invaluable information about the program as it was ten years ago already. Personally, I figure this guy has even more of an inside view than Ritter (whom he found laughable), and if he says the Iraqis are very, very close, I tend to put some serious weight on that.

  So I say, do whatever is necessary to stop the madman who is Saddam from being in a position to incinerate millions.

  outnfree

  (who is feeling very grateful so close to Veteran's Day to those who have sacrificed their lives, their limbs, their health to assure us our freedom and who is very proud that there are others -- reservists being called up daily -- who are willing to continue to preserve that freedom today.)

  Edited by - outnfree on 9 November 2002 19:14:20
• 

  joannadandy

  You miss my point. I want him gone, that I realize will take military action, NONE of you responded to my worries about what happens after that. Then what?

  If you get rid of him he is only in a long line. Then what? Is it our job to police the middle east from now until the end of time?

  For someone who is so concerned about is seen on the 5 o'clock news you really need to check what is going on. The entire media is whipped up in a frenzy there are very few cool heads right now, and they are reporting fear. Listen to the news it's all about "us versus them" What Saddam is going to do to us and all this crap.

  Vietnam was a failure not because people weren't behind it 100% but because it was a pointless war. It was us against them, only couldn't spot THEM to save our lives. Did it end badly, yes! Of course it did. And look at that part of the world, it is still in chaos! You honestly think if we had taken it over it would be different?

  The USA is great at making war plans, they just never seem to organize clean-up efforts for all their democratic action.

  As I said before, I realize it will take violence to get Saddam out, I am pissed off because no one explains what happens later...
• 

  TR

  Italy sucks.

  My daughter WAS going to visit next spring, but I guess not, now.

  TR
• 

  Francois

  Mackin, when Saddam gets nukes and/or biological weapons, he will use them. If he gets biological weapons, even you on your isolated island in the south Pacific will eventually be infected. You had better hope and pray the U.S. gets Saddam before he destroys your island paradise.

  We had better deal with Saddam while he represents a small problem, rather than deal with him when he has grown into a big problem. When he's grown into a big problem, what he will do to your smug attitude on your "isolated" island doesn't bear thinking about.
• 

  DakotaRed

  As I said before, I realize it will take violence to get Saddam out, I am pissed off because no one explains what happens later...

  Joanna, isn't this putting the buggy before the horse? Think back, did the world worry about what would happen once Hitler and the nazis were taken out? Or, was the thrust to stop him first, then rebuild the country and allow a peaceful and strong government to run the country? No one has a functioning crystal ball, but a madman must be stopped, an interim government set up to get the counry going again and then, a permanent government set in place.

  There are always Hitlers and Saddams ready to take control. But, by helping the country have a strong, yet peaceful government, they don't stand a chance of actually getting in power. Look at the former adversaries today. Germany and Japan both are thriving countries and I'm sure they both have those who still think HItler and Tojo were right. But, they don't dare try it again, do they? The world stood united against them. Had they done it sooner, maybe that war could have been averted.

  But, to be focusing on after Saddam is ousted now is shifting the attention away from the first matter of importance, getting him ousted. It is an old ploy of the anti-war socialists who honestly believe the Saddams can be appeased and that they are men of their word. They are not.

  If the anti-war socialists could just open their eyes and realize that by standing united against Saddam, the world community could stop this before any shots are fired. Saddam is a bully, plain and simple. Bullies cower and fold in the face of superior strength.

  Lew W
• 

  DakotaRed

  Well, I think this country should take a serious look at why any other country would WANT to use those horrible weapons against us in the first place. What has this country done to provoke such anger from others?

  Back, who is saying he wishes to use them against only the US? If Saddam is so worried about what we did to him, why hasn't he sought meaningful dialogue and allowed the UN weapons inspectors in to see he has stopped building the weapons of mass destruction in so many years? To have UN imposed sanctions lifted, and it is UN imposed, not US, all he needed to do was show he was complying with the agreement signed at the end of the Gulf War when he was ousted from Kuwait.

  While he lives in luxury and eats well, his countrymen go without. He keeps building and stock piling weapons, against the very agreement signed by Iraq, and lets his citizens languish.

  I said it before and I'll say it agin, this coming war could be completely prevented and not a single shot fired if the worl community stood with the US against Saddam and his thirst for weapons of mass destruction. Bush, even though you don't care for him, is taking a stand that others should join in with him. By complaining about Bush's stand (and personally, I wouldn't care if it were Clinton taking a strong stand) Saddam is being granted a repreive that will allow him access to the very weapons the world is worried about the US using. Saddam has shown he would not hesitate using them.

  All the smoke screens of why would he want to, or what will happen afterwards just prolong the suffering many are doing and will be doing. I agree that US foreign policy has not always been the greatest, but first and foremost, tyrants must be stopped in their tracks. To men like Saddam, they use the excuse of US support for Israel and sanctions to mask their real intent, world domination. He is a radical, bloodthirsty madman and will stop at nothing, just like Hitler before him, to impose his view of how the world should be. Given the opportunity to perfect the weapons he desires, the world community, the very same ones that are complaining about Bush's stand today, are the very ones who will be threatened first.

  A strong and firm stand from the world leaders against his quest for weapons and world domination will stop him in is tracks and most likely without any shots fired at all. Peace is only kept from a position of strength, not one of pacifism. Be glad that it is the US who has that strength now and not ones like Saddam.

  Lew W
• 

  Perry

  Well spoken Lew. It really is that simple isn't it when you compare the alternatives.
• 

  outnfree

  Joanna,

  I think Lew is right, but I also wanted to note that the defector/physicist I mentioned above, is of the opinion that many Iragis would be dancing in the streets if Saddam were deposed. Frankly, I don't know enough about the situation. But given the FEAR and INTIMIDATION that Saddam uses to keep the general public in line (public beheadings, desecration of the corpses), I'm thinking whatever "factions" might eventually arise to take over Iraq's government are waaaay underground at the moment.

  outnfree
• 

  czarofmischief

  Joanna asked if it was our job to police the Middle East forever.

  Yes it is. Because we can, and we have to. If they could police themselves, they would be doing it by now.

  The NZ'er said he is glad that US ships can't stop in his ports. Well, the US ships have kept the Japanese sun from flying over your soil. They hold back the Red Chinese (Could New Zealand be the next Tibet?) The only way the NZ'ers can impose a laughable resolution like banning nuclear ships is if we let you.

  Democracy is a better evolved form of government than the primitive autocracies of the Middle East. Not perfect, but more highly evolved, and the rest of the world needs to wake up and evolve or be pushed into extinction.

  The only way the Italians can get away with dancing for peace is if hardworking American and British blood is poured out on the sands of the East for their protection. At least Italy won't be trying to help us like they "helped" Hitler.

  CZAR