Keeping it in perspective

by Torn 103 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Torn
    Torn

    Hi. I've just joined up to Silentlambs

    Basically I still consider myself a JW, although I'm no longer active. I do frequent the odd sunday meeting tho, as I still consider 95% of it to be the truth. I have however in the last few years had a lot of trouble with the Society's chronology, teaching regarding the Gentile times, and the order of events in these last days (which I believe we are in). It was the 'this generation' so called new light in 1994 which knocked the wind out of my sails, and since then I have been doing a lot of research into bible chronology, and scouring for independent interpretations of eschalotological related matters. I strongly doubt the gentile times started in 607 BCE, more likely 525BCE when Babylon was destroyed. John Denton's amazing research into bible chronology (try searching under bible chronlogy or email [email protected]) and his views as expressed on his website especially rocked me and opened my mind up to other possibilities and interpretations I had never even dreamed of before. I do believe Armageddon is definitely coming, but I think it could still easily be decades away. As a result I feel the Organisation puts far too much emphasis on Armageddon's 'nearness' and this has become a controlling mechanism, instead of more emphasis being put on christian love and qualities to those on the inside, and out. It creates a distorted attitude amongst many JW's, who feel nothing really matters as long as they keep clocking up points in heaven by going to meetings, on FS etc, cause the end is 'just around the corner'. There should be more emphasis on building christian qualities and displaying christian fruitage for our WHOLE life, not just because we think the big prize of the new system is 'so close', like it has been for decades already. I also feel the Society have 'double vision' regarding the Christ's return, ie, they say he returned in 1914 invisibly and sat on a throne then in heaven, but he is also to 'return' in another sense at the outbreak of Armageddon and sit on another throne, ie, a 'judgement throne'. I see this as fudging and trying to put old wine into new wineskins doctrinally about teachings concerning Christ's return that the Society just can't let go of. I could go into this in a lot more detail but won't here and now.

    I am still a JW in my heart, unlike many I see on this list who are quite vitriolic, maybe for good personal reason I can understand with all the emotional and psychological damage inflicted with poorly handled judicial matters, ostracism, judgementalism, and paedofilia victims, however I try to keep things in perspective. Most on this list it seems are so convinced the Organisation doesn't have God's backing and is even 'evil'. For myself, I am not going to throw the baby out with the water. In a nutshell, I think all of the Society's main doctrines are spot on (trinity, hellfire, immortal soul, paradise earth, small number taken to heaven, etc), however, this religion is made up of imperfect individuals and even a sprinkling of downright 'unloving' and harsh elders, pretenders, but to my mind that doesn't mean God is not using this Organisation. I guess I could expect a flaming from a lot of listees for this, but it's a personal choice of balance for me at this point in my life and understanding, which I ask others to respect.

    I feel there are a lot of changes ahead for the "Organisation" in the next few years, and I'm waiting for those, especially regarding chronological matters and the current understanding regarding the timing of Christ's return. In the meantime I choose not to be too critical of the Society but just take a neutral position and wait to see how things develop.

  • IronGland
    IronGland

    'When the spiritual teacher and his disciples began their evening meditation, the cat who lived in the monastery made such noise that it distracted them. So the teacher ordered that the cat be tied up during the evening practice. Years later, when the teacher died, the cat continued to be tied up during the meditation session. And when the cat eventually died, another cat was brought to the monastery and tied up. Centuries later, learned descendants of the spiritual teacher wrote scholarly treatises about the religious significance of tying up a cat for meditation practice.'

  • myself
    myself

    Welcome Torn!

    I found more then just the WTS chronology to be a problem, but I can respect your right to believe in what you do. In light of what I have seen regarding the WTS I can't believe that they are God's chosen organization. I personally can't see changes coming within their circle that will make any difference to me. I am glad you joined this board and look forward to your posts.

    Myself

  • larc
    larc

    I really don't think people here will flame you for your sincere beliefs. I think most here will respect you for doing your own research and concluding that everything is not quite right. In this regard it is hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. We here, have been on that journey you are taking, and we wish you well on that journey, as painful as it may be, at times.

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Hi Torn,

    You wrote:

    I feel there are a lot of changes ahead for the "Organisation" in the next few years, and I'm waiting for those, especially regarding chronological matters and the current understanding regarding the timing of Christ's return. In the meantime I choose not to be too critical of the Society but just take a neutral position and wait to see how things develop.

    I welcome you here and welcome your posts. Please feel free to post your views, they are not only much appreciated but also very much needed. Some will forcefully disagree with you at times, my advice is to answer those posts you feel warrant an answer and ignore the rest.

    I disassociated myself in 1999 but still miss my friends in the Org. I look forward to your contributions.

    IW

  • musky
    musky

    Hello Torn, Sounds like you have your head screwed on straight. I don't need to remind you that you are going against the societys admonishing, not to question anything. Just wait on Jehovah

    It takes courage to make a stand on your beliefs. Please, continue to be an independant thinker. Its the only way to live , I feel. We are all entitled to our own beliefs. I share yours, in that armageddon may come now or many years from now. I also feel that the watchtower has some correct teachings. However, when they claim to be Gods sole channel of communication on earth, I have a problem with that. Anyway, welcome. I don't have experience with the silent lambs issue, but I hope that works out well for you.

  • Alligator Wisdom
    Alligator Wisdom

    WELCOME "TORN"!

    Each of us will take our own path or direction in life. There are some who will walk along the same path as others. Then there are those who will meet or encounter others only when their paths cross. For some, they prefer to always change the route they are going on.

    Musky, in his/her reply wrote: "It takes courage to make a stand on your beliefs. Please, continue to be an independant thinker. Its the only way to live , I feel. We are all entitled to our own beliefs."

    Each of us will have to answer only to God (Jehovah). No one else! Your quest for truth and peace is something that will embolden you to continue. Certainly, the Creator knows! Since you obviously have principles that you live by, keep them. I find that the "companionship" here on this board/forum is very insightful. All of us are teachers! We teach each other!

    Please let us know how things develop!

    Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother Exerting Vigorously)

  • Buster
    Buster

    Tom, welcome.

    You are beginning a period of discovery. Though you will feel much freedom, I hope you are not too disappointed when you startr to feel that there is no baby in the bathwater.

    Good Luck.

  • neyank
    neyank

    Hi torn,

    You said : " however, this religion is made up of imperfect individuals and even a sprinkling of downright 'unloving' and harsh elders, pretenders, but to my mind that doesn't mean God is not using this Organisation. "

    The same argument can be used discussing other religions.
    Could it not?

    There are other religions that really do try to live up to Christs' teachings.
    ie: fruits of the spirit, being good samaritans, caring for thier fellow man,
    having genuin love for each other, ect....

    Now if you feel that God is using the WTS, shouldn't there be some proof?

    Looking back in the Bible, the ones that God was using had proof to back up thier claims.
    Miracles were performed, prophecies came true.

    With the WTS what do we see?

    False prophecies, no miracles, unChristian behavior, false teachings, teachings that are changed over and over again.
    Stating thier teachings come from God when they have to constantly be changed
    is something that made my eyes open to what the WTS is all about.

    Let's not forget what they instill in thier followers.
    A person MUST be part of the WTS....A person MUST be at the meetings and be out distributing thier litterature or face eternal destruction at Armagedon.

    That is not a teaching that was taught in the Bible.

    You state the WTS has some things right but you know what?
    So do other religions.

    I have a question for you.
    What is the 'good news' the WTS teaches?

    What is the 'good news' that is found in the scriptures?

    BTW. Welcome to the board.
    Even tho you may not find that everyone agrees with your thoughts on matters, at least you can discuss them.
    That is definately not something that is ALLOWED by the WTS.

    Correct?

    neyank

  • pettygrudger
    pettygrudger

    Torn - I too used to believe in 95% - I could not let go of the thought that even though imperfect, this was "God's true organization". It took a long time for me, and then a lot of soul searching.

    Raised a JW, I never had even considered other possibilities. When I was thrown out into the world, I was scared to death!!! What I found in the world is much different then what I thought I'd find.

    When I started to re-examine my beliefs, alone as no JW's would give me the time of day, I began to see something far different than what Jesus had said would be the signs of his true organization. One scripture, and I'm paraphrasing here as I don't have my bible with me, his apostles asked about ones coming with false prophecies in his name. His response - get away from me you - I never knew you.

    If you still decide after doing all the actual research that the JW's are for you, then that is your personal choice. I've seen many JW's who post here who are not "belittled or condemned for their beliefs. Its the haughty, arrogant, judgemental ones that always get a good flogging - a much deserved one, as they are not God and do not have the right to judge the hearts of others.

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